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Traitor Titan Legions (TTL) v2.2 and v2.31b [Developmental]

 Post subject: Re: [Experimental] Chaos Titan Legion (CTL) list
PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 12:17 pm 
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IJW Wartrader wrote:
Excellent! I really like the overall feel, apart from a concern that lists will have to load up on Lesser Daemon Engine Formations due to Greater Daemon Engines being limited to one per Battle Titan. That will need some playtesting, though.


Thanks! And good point. Have been back and forth about this, and would prefer the list to be fairly rigid (cuts down on the possible variations = easier playtest). Maybe leaning towards having Lesser Daemon Engines being one for every Battle titan Formation and Greater Daemon Formation. Don't want the Greater Daemon Engines to become too dominant in the list.

IJW Wartrader wrote:
I assume from some of the weapon stats and from the criticals that this is mostly based on the EpicUK lists?

The NetEA Warhound equivalents, Lords of Battle, Subjugators and Questors only take damage from criticals if the random move makes them walk into something. The EpicUK crits are probably more balanced, I just wanted to check this is intentional.


Yes, this is intentional.

IJW Wartrader wrote:
Nurgle weapons also have some discrepancies from the current Death Guard list, so it might be worth changing either the stats or the names:

CTL Decay Cannon: 30cm 4xAP3+, Disrupt
DG Decay Cannon: 30cm 3xAP3+/AT5+, Disrupt

CTL Putrifier Cannon: 45cm 4xAP3+/AT5+, Disrupt
DG Putrifier Cannon: 60cm 4xAP3+/AT5+, Disrupt

The Corruption Cannon and Heavy Plague Mortar already have different names from the Liquefier Cannon and Plague Mortar so that's not an issue.


Good point. A name change on those is done. For now, I'm following the E-UK list pretty closely, but it may become an hybrid as time goes on. The woes of having different variations!

IJW Wartrader wrote:
Rules Q: all formations have Daemonic Pact? That might be worth spelling out more clearly.


Yes, that's the intention. Will write it out.

IJW Wartrader wrote:
Army Q: AA coverage is only from the Heretek Shrine and Temple? EDIT - and aircraft, obviously!


Yes, that's the only AA. Maybe it turns out that taking the Temple isn't worth it, and then I'll have to reconsider.

IJW Wartrader wrote:
Army Q: when you pick a Battle Titan, do the Greater and Lesser Daemon Engine formations have to be from the same faction? For example a Nurgle Chaos Reaver Titan and an Undivided Chaos Warhound?


For a while I had that restriction, but removed it as I thought the penalty from the Faction rule was enough. Might put it back again in some form, but don't want the list to become *too* rigid. Have to buy a lot of armies and see what cheese I can find.

IJW Wartrader wrote:
Unit Q: Defilers have a smaller main gun. I assume this is to make the Titans more popular for range? 10cm move on the Nurgle ones means they will never be taken, but I'm not sure what to do differently. Maybe lose Walker?


The Defilers look a lot like those in Lost and the Damned, and are intended for garrisons... But I agree, 10cm might be too harsh. Losing Walker could be an interesting alternative... Not having March is pretty bad as well.

Thanks for the feedback!

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 Post subject: Re: [Experimental] Chaos Titan Legion (CTL) list
PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 8:57 pm 
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Thanks for the answers!

Due to Death Guard testing its going to be a while before I can get a game in, but I'll certainly be doing some list-building before then, while keeping an eye out for anything that looks particularly good or bad. I may be able to do an Army Forge entry, but no guarantees.

Factions - I particularly like that you've applied this according to the old Realm of Chaos alignments of Khorne vs Slaanesh and Nurgle vs Tzeentch, very flavourful.

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 Post subject: Re: [Experimental] Chaos Titan Legion (CTL) list
PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 12:34 am 
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Another one that looks like a typo - you have the Emperor Titan as 15cm/5+/4+/4+ but as far as I'm aware the standard profile is 15cm/4+/4+/3+

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 Post subject: Re: [Experimental] Chaos Titan Legion (CTL) list
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 3:01 pm 
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IJW Wartrader wrote:
Another one that looks like a typo - you have the Emperor Titan as 15cm/5+/4+/4+ but as far as I'm aware the standard profile is 15cm/4+/4+/3+


Not a typo. I want to try and make the chaos emperor titan slightly less overwhelming than the loyalist emperor titan, and to make it come in at or under 1000 points. My group is not so fond of the loyalist version (they think it's too big for a 3000 points battle) and I agree to some extent. Even with 5+ armour, it ought to be pretty darn hard to kill.

Also, combined with daemons, some configurations will probably be even better than the loyalist version in CC and FF, so there's some balancing to be done there as well.

That being said, I'm open to other ways of achieving this objective!

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 Post subject: Re: [Experimental] Chaos Titan Legion (CTL) list
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 3:24 pm 
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Aye. I've got the list working on a local copy of Army Forge, but need to upload it for Adam.

Still theoryhammer, but I think the Temple needs a boost, even if it's just adding AP and AT to the AA gun. It's not just that you're losing two gun slots to it, but it also puts severe restrictions on Support Weapons as most of them are Carapace-mounted. For Undivided, the only Support Weapon option is the slow-firing Quake Cannon.

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 Post subject: Re: [Experimental] Chaos Titan Legion (CTL) list
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 4:21 pm 
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IJW Wartrader wrote:
Aye. I've got the list working on a local copy of Army Forge, but need to upload it for Adam.


Great! How does one go about updating it?

IJW Wartrader wrote:
Still theoryhammer, but I think the Temple needs a boost, even if it's just adding AP and AT to the AA gun. It's not just that you're losing two gun slots to it, but it also puts severe restrictions on Support Weapons as most of them are Carapace-mounted. For Undivided, the only Support Weapon option is the slow-firing Quake Cannon.


I agree. Just made all support weapons arm & carapace... Except for the Tzeentch Beam of Change which I think is by far the best of the lot. The Temple now also have Ignore Cover in FF.

Undivided can also take the Warp and Vortex missiles. But perhaps they need some other type of "Undivided Only" option.

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 Post subject: Re: [Experimental] Chaos Titan Legion (CTL) list
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 5:07 pm 
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Army Forge - I upload the files, Adam or kyussinchains merges them into the main set of files and then at some point they get copied across to the main site. It might still be a few weeks.

Support Weapons - sorry for not being clearer, I meant that if the Templle was taken then the only possible Suiport Weapon for Undivided was the Quake Cannon equivalent as the only arm mount one. Making the missiles arm or carapace makes it a lot more manageable.

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 Post subject: Re: [Experimental] Chaos Titan Legion (CTL) list
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 7:43 pm 
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Ok, post updated with version 1.1

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 Post subject: Re: [Experimental] Chaos Titan Legion (CTL) list
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 4:49 pm 
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Chosen of Chaos - I'm confused, shouldn't this available for Warlords as well? At the moment it's only available on Reavers which means you can have a Reaver with two Support Weapons, but a Warlord can only have one.

Back to the Temple and Shrine again - do they follow the usual Fixed Forward fire arc for Carapace mounts? That'll make their AA fire almost useless as aircraft will just go round the back.

Tails - the Banelord of Khorne has worse stats (FF4+) than the Undivided Warlord, but the Undivided gets an extra tail even though it's already better? Similar for the Emperor-class.

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 Post subject: Re: [Experimental] Chaos Titan Legion (CTL) list
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 7:06 pm 
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IJW Wartrader wrote:
Chosen of Chaos - I'm confused, shouldn't this available for Warlords as well? At the moment it's only available on Reavers which means you can have a Reaver with two Support Weapons, but a Warlord can only have one.


No, Reavers are normally not allowed to have Support weapons, so with Chosen of Chaos one Reaver can have a maximum of one.

Primary reason it's Reavers only is because only allowing 1 Support weapon on Warlords makes it more sensible to take an Emperor titan. Second reason it is Reavers only is because it allows people to run 2 Reavers without having 2 BTS (they still don't get a Supreme tho, and it's Undivided Only, so it's OK.) Third reason is I'm a bit concerned about making it too easy for people to show up with too many Warp Missiles =-)

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Back to the Temple and Shrine again - do they follow the usual Fixed Forward fire arc for Carapace mounts? That'll make their AA fire almost useless as aircraft will just go round the back.


Should naturally be all round. Will clarify this.

Quote:
Tails - the Banelord of Khorne has worse stats (FF4+) than the Undivided Warlord, but the Undivided gets an extra tail even though it's already better? Similar for the Emperor-class.


The thinking was that the Undivided titans have access to less weapon options than other titans, and are generally much worse at summoning daemons (costs twice as much). But perhaps that's already reflected in the stats, and maybe there are not enough "Undivided Only" options (in version 1.2) that it's not needed. Will think about it.

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 Post subject: Re: [Experimental] Chaos Titan Legion (CTL) list
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 7:29 pm 
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Ah, my mistake on the Support Weapons, I'd misread it as 'Battle Titans' being able to get one, not 'Warlord Titans'.

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 Post subject: Re: [Experimental] Chaos Titan Legion (CTL) list
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 7:34 pm 
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Version 1.2 is up.

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 Post subject: Re: [Experimental] Chaos Titan Legion (CTL) list
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:30 pm 
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Really liking the shape this list is taking! So many choices!

Hertik temple feels a little bit to good though with 4xAA4+, maybe 4xAA5+ Is a little more sensible?ä

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 Post subject: Re: [Experimental] Chaos Titan Legion (CTL) list
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 11:53 pm 
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mordoten wrote:
Really liking the shape this list is taking! So many choices!


Thanks! Always thought chaos lists should be a bit like this =-)

Quote:
Hertik temple feels a little bit to good though with 4xAA4+, maybe 4xAA5+ Is a little more sensible?


Well, it takes up 2 carapace hardpoints, and so replaces two other battle weapons. On a Warlord that means no Beam of Change, and only a close combat weapon or Feral weapon besides whatever Support weapon you buy.
If it was 4xAA5+ it would make more sense to just buy 2 Heretek Shrines (which take 1 carapace hardpoint) and spread out the AA over more titans.

I agree it's good tho, maybe too good.

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 Post subject: Re: [Experimental] Chaos Titan Legion (CTL) list
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 1:58 am 
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It's pretty tame compared to the old Warmonger's 8xAA5+ plus a Fighter.

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