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Skitarii v1.12

 Post subject: Re: Skitarii v1.12
PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 7:40 pm 
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Evil and Chaos wrote:
It's 2 squadrons.

Not a full company, and thus doesn't have a command tank.


I didn't question that :) Only thatit is odd that 2 Squadrons form a fighting formation. Usually it's the whole Company or only a single Squadron.

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 Post subject: Re: Skitarii v1.12
PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 7:44 pm 
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Ad Mech are weird.

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 Post subject: Re: Skitarii v1.12
PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 7:53 pm 
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DKoK too it seems :D

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 Post subject: Re: Skitarii v1.12
PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 7:56 pm 
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Death Korps are noted as not using their tanks in standard companies, but instead simply taking whatever tanks they have in the area and then pointing them at the enemy and driving forwards.

In attrition based warfare, it's simply not worth their while creating and training proper tank companies.

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 Post subject: Re: Skitarii v1.12
PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 8:02 pm 
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Yet there is a DKoK Tank armylist for Wh40k :D

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 Post subject: Re: Skitarii v1.12
PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 8:13 pm 
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Really, I don't see DkoK having tank co and them pointing whatever they have at the enemy as mutually exclusive. I'm sure they started the war with complete companies and as time went on fielding them becoming less of a viable option. I also don't see the issue with a company detaching two squadrons to assist. I mean if they detach one squadron, I'm sure the other two just don't sit around the motor pool and I don't think the company will always break out each squadron individually.

I'm sure that conversation would go over well. "sir, they have denied our request for armor support, we need six tanks to commit and we are only allowed to request a squadron or company!"

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 Post subject: Re: Skitarii v1.12
PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 10:05 pm 
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And if one considers that we are thinking for six high tech AdMech tanks they might just be the company equivalent in their structure.

Anyhow, I like the idea of it :)

And you are right E&C that there is no need for AdMech superheavymodification besides fluff so I am fine with it and just paint them accordingly.


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 Post subject: Re: Skitarii v1.12
PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2010 3:51 pm 
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Evil and Chaos wrote:
- Dropping Basilisks from the list, leaving only the Manticore and Bombard as artillery.


I don't like that idea. I can understand wanting some differentiation between IG and ADMech, but I think you're starting to remove too much iconic Imperial equipment. I really don't like the removal of Hydra detachments.

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 Post subject: Re: Skitarii v1.12
PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2010 5:02 pm 
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But isn´t that the point of the removal? The AdMech delivers iconic Imperial equipement to the guard and uses its advanced stuff for their own.

And the removal of the Hydra detachments brought up the question for some AdMech specific AA like the AA macharius. But I could live with the Hydra detachment. I will model them in a different way then if this stays the only ground AA.


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 Post subject: Re: Skitarii v1.12
PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2010 5:25 pm 
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DS: the point of removing it is to keep Admech from playing as red IG with titan tank support. With the little info we have on how the AdMech wages war, I just don't see them deploying companies of artillery. It seems much more likely that ordinatus minorus are used in that roll since it appears each company had a minorus attached. Admech will still have the option for iconic superheavy tanks, the iconic leman russ, the iconic sentinel, etc. It doesn't need to have the basilisk to have iconic Imperial tech.

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 Post subject: Re: Skitarii v1.12
PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2010 11:58 pm 
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I was playing with this list for a while, but have discarded it in favour of just using the Steel Legion list. There are two main reasons I've done this
1) Moving all the toys to Support Formation status seems overly restrictive, and smells to me of making difference for difference sake. I'd probably suck it up though if it weren't for item 2...
2) The infantry seem to me badly overcosted. The hypaspist demi-century has seriously underperformed in every game I've played. At around 30 points/stand*#, compare their statline with IG Stormtroopers (better firefight, Scout ability, can shoot up tanks up close, 25 points/stand), Chaos Marines (decent ranged squad weapon, demon summoning, better statline across the board, 34 points/stand). I reckon they should be costed closer to 22 points/stand if they are to be competitively balanced within the game.

Anyway, thanks E&C for all the work you've put in. I'm quite a fan of the alternate weapon fits on Titans - it gives me an excuse to use more magnets :)

*Yes I've fudged the calculations slightly on all these because I CBF trying to work out points values for the various command stands - but it should be close enough for the purposes of comparison.
#Even with the 5-stand infantry upgrade, they still weigh in at around 27points/stand - still too high IMO


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 Post subject: Re: Skitarii v1.12
PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2010 12:07 am 
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Well, I can definitely move on #2 by dropping the cost of the infantry formations.

#1 won't change though, as this is not an Imperial Guard list, so it's not going to have the same core equipment as an Imperial Guard army. It shares some common ground with the Guard, but it's a very different beast.

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 Post subject: Re: Skitarii v1.12
PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 11:40 am 
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Hey all,

Just had a bit of a thought regarding infantry types which I thought I'd bring to the table but feel free to rubbish it.

What about introducing a third infantry tier, so that we would have in terms of effectiveness / eliteness

1/. Praetorians
2/. Skitarii
3/. Unit X

My take on unit X would be as follows

Menails

When a forge is under atack it's first line of defense will be the highly trained and well equipped legions of skitarii and praetorians. However in desperate circumstances the forge can empty it's manufactoriums and send the menial workforce to the frontlines to bolster flagging points. These menailas are untrained and poorly equipped with no purpose built battlefield augments, however they can still be dangerous in large numbers, turning the fearsome industrial bionics and tools previosuly used to build tanks and other machines onto the enemy.

Menials
Type Speed Armour Close Combat Firefight
Infantry 15cm 6+ 5+ 6+

Weapon Range Firepower Notes
Forge tools 15cm Small arms


I think it would add an interesting element, effectively a meat shield to support the more expensive infantry which no other imperial army really has. As the army is supposed to be a PDF force I thought this idea meshed quite well (as opposed to being an exploratory fleet). I'm obviously no games designer but does anybody have any thoughts or comments on the above?

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 Post subject: Re: Skitarii v1.12
PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 2:46 pm 
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Interesting idea. You could even eliminate the FF value, arguing that it would be unlikely that they would have any sort of ranged weaponry.

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 Post subject: Re: Skitarii v1.12
PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 3:09 pm 
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I like that idea. It is something that further differentiates the AdMech from the IG.
Nevertheless the Skittari are overcosted. I played some games with them now and they never were as strong as their point value suggested.


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