Login |  Register |  FAQ
   
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 7 posts ] 

Scout shield for protecton of artillery against assault

 Post subject: Scout shield for protecton of artillery against assault
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 11:20 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2016 2:30 am
Posts: 347
Location: Campbelltown (Sydney) NSW
This covers both air and ground assault.

The rules say that you have to charge the nearest enemy unit, right? Which is why clipping assaults work so well in getting units closer to the enemy that normally would be outside the engagement FF range.

I have snipped a relevant section of the charge rules here.

Units may not enter an enemy zone of control while they move, unless they are undertaking an engage action and use their charge move to get into base contact with the nearest enemy unit whose zone of control they have entered.

If I declare I intend to engage the scouts whose ZOC is contacted first and are positioned behind the artillery, then I advance forward until I also meet the ZOC of the nearest enemy unit which just happens to be one of the artillery pieces. Would this contradict the rules, is it just a sneaky way of abusing the rules or is it a valid manoeuvre? I can not go around the artillery on my way to the scouts, and although I may not get any or all my units in contact with the scouts, I could get a few of them within 15cm of them to allow me to FF them, while simultaneously CC the artillery. This would make the use of a rear scout screen void, and force opponents to deploy scout forward of their artillery.

You could use 2 scout formations and surround the artillery making it harder to engage the artillery at all, except through an air assault where you might simultaneously meet the ZOC of both enemy formations.

I am just trying to get this sort of thing sorted in my head, as I have had enemy use all sorts of tricks and tactics to kill of an artillery formation embedded in a scout shield.

_________________
6mm wargaming is just like 25mm wargaming with more units fitting on the same size table. Thus bigger games to get lost in and avoid the hassles of everyday living, and offerings for the dice gods.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Scout shield for protecton of artillery against assault
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 11:57 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2014 1:41 pm
Posts: 342
Location: London
The last official GW FAQ covered this to some degree. It said:

2.1.12 Scout
Q: It’s possible to place a Scout unit
just behind another friendly unit, so
that the Scouts 10cm ZOC covers the
friendly unit too. If this happens, can I
charge the non-Scout unit? The rules
say I can’t enter a ZOC unless I’m
charging the unit it belongs to.
A: You are, of course, allowed to charge
the unit! If an explanation is needed, then
let’s say that the rule for moving into base
contact with the enemy takes precedence
over the rule for not entering another
unit’s ZOC. However, any player who has
attempted to use this tactic to stop a
charge should hang their head in shame!

_________________
Image


Last edited by ffoley on Tue May 16, 2017 11:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Scout shield for protecton of artillery against assault
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 11:57 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Tue Jun 04, 2013 2:25 pm
Posts: 451
Location: Scotland, UK
So although the artillery is the closer unit, the scouts ZOC is encountered first? (IE the scouts are behind the artillery?)

I dont play competitively so someone will probably guide you better but I put scout screens infront/around the artillery so you have to get passed the scouts first. Surely in your example if your going to assault it would have to be the artillery as its infront of the scouts and therefore the first unit you come to? Or hang it all and do a combined!?

_________________
Walk softly. And carry a big gun.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Scout shield for protecton of artillery against assault
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 12:02 pm 
Hybrid
Hybrid
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2011 12:03 pm
Posts: 5810
Location: Leicester UK
if the scouts are positioned behind the artillery but out of intermingled distance, you can engage the artillery and effectively ignore the scouts, this is covered in the FAQ:

Quote:
Q: It’s possible to place a Scout unit
just behind another friendly unit, so
that the Scouts 10cm ZOC covers the
friendly unit too. If this happens, can I
charge the non-Scout unit? The rules
say I can’t enter a ZOC unless I’m
charging the unit it belongs to.
A: You are, of course, allowed to charge
the unit! If an explanation is needed, then
let’s say that the rule for moving into base
contact with the enemy takes precedence
over the rule for not entering another
unit’s ZOC. However, any player who has
attempted to use this tactic to stop a
charge should hang their head in shame!


if however you wish to engage the scouts, provided you can reach them to FF without entering the artillery ZoC then you can engage them, however you can't enter the ZoC of the artillery to engage the scouts as you may only enter ZoC if you are engaging the unit that owns that ZoC

_________________
Adeptus Astartes Army Champion, also AC for Imperial Fists and Red Corsairs

various hobby/painting threads: full of 6mm goodness

Army Forge List Co-ordinator (netEA+EpicUK)


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Scout shield for protecton of artillery against assault
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 12:14 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 11:39 pm
Posts: 1921
Location: South Yorkshire
Deb wrote:

If I declare I intend to engage the scouts whose ZOC is contacted first and are positioned behind the artillery, then I advance forward until I also meet the ZOC of the nearest enemy unit which just happens to be one of the artillery pieces. Would this contradict the rules, is it just a sneaky way of abusing the rules or is it a valid manoeuvre? I can not go around the artillery on my way to the scouts, and although I may not get any or all my units in contact with the scouts, I could get a few of them within 15cm of them to allow me to FF them, while simultaneously CC the artillery. This would make the use of a rear scout screen void, and force opponents to deploy scout forward of their artillery.


You cannot enter the zofc of the artillery with an engage action against the scouts (counter charges does permit entering nearest units zofc). from 1.12.3
Quote:
Note that charging units may not enter the zone of control of enemy units from another formation that is not the
target of the assault.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Scout shield for protecton of artillery against assault
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 1:59 pm 
Hybrid
Hybrid
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2011 12:03 pm
Posts: 5810
Location: Leicester UK
also worth bearing in mind that the scout screen from behind vs air assault question is quite contentious and the ERC have ruled that it is a 5-min warmup question, or alternatively for TO's to decide, in EpicUK events it is typically played that in the case of a unit being ringed by scouts, you cannot land in the ZoC of the artillery to assault it, however I know that other groups round the world have their own interpretation, IIRC Onyx's group play that the screen from behind FAQ still applies and an air assault may bypass scout screens, so there is no 'hard and fast' interpretation of the rules and you will need to decide with your opponent beforehand

_________________
Adeptus Astartes Army Champion, also AC for Imperial Fists and Red Corsairs

various hobby/painting threads: full of 6mm goodness

Army Forge List Co-ordinator (netEA+EpicUK)


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Scout shield for protecton of artillery against assault
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 10:33 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2016 2:30 am
Posts: 347
Location: Campbelltown (Sydney) NSW
I am in Australia, so they tend to play it using Onyx's way. However, if I want to assault the artillery, then I could also try a few neat Dark Eldar tricks of my own.

Move up my reavers or wyches to support an assault, then send in my Coterie with its barges or other transports, and throw out the Portable Wraithgate, off to one side. engage the scout screen, and hopefully with my larger force take them out, or draw them off. When my turn to activate comes again, activate the Talos and assault the enemy on the opposite flank travelling through the wraithgate. It would need 3 formations to assault 2, however every generals knows you need 3:1 odd or better to assault an enemy, especially in prepared positions.

That could work or I could do something similar. Send in the reavers whose Succubus(allocated before game starts) throws the portable wraithgate, and then I then assault with the Coterie. The Archon uses the commander skill, and then I have a combined assault. I am not sure if I can deploy the Talos out of the Wraithgate as part of the combined assault. It is counted as an immobile transport for the formation. If I can, then declare an assault on both the Artillery and the Scouts. I will certainly have more units and more dice to roll.

The only problem is that leave all those units generally out in the open after combat as prime targets to enemy counter assault of combined weapons fire. Thankfully Dark Eldar can move their full distance after they reform after an assault.

I will have to work out a few tactics and play test it at home.

_________________
6mm wargaming is just like 25mm wargaming with more units fitting on the same size table. Thus bigger games to get lost in and avoid the hassles of everyday living, and offerings for the dice gods.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 7 posts ] 


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


Powered by phpBB ® Forum Software © phpBB Group
CoDFaction Style by Daniel St. Jules of Gamexe.net