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Tau coordinated fire

 Post subject: Tau coordinated fire
PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2016 11:23 am 
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Hey guys just me. This came up a while ago and I've been meaning to ask just to double check.

How many times in a turn can the tau player use coordinated fire? We've just been playing it without restriction and hes loving activating 6 units at the start of the turn with a coordinate-retain-coordinate. With the endless seas of tetras keeping everything markerlit its been the deathknell of both my Leman Russ and Shadowsword companies wherever I try and hide them more times than I want to remember

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 Post subject: Re: Tau coordinated fire
PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:55 pm 
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It's unlimited. Burning through six activations at the start of the turn to take out 2 of yours seems like it leave you with free reign for the end of the turn. You can also try ZoCing things or breaking the scout formations that are letting him do it.

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 Post subject: Re: Tau coordinated fire
PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2016 5:09 pm 
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Also, use your own cheap scout screens to stop him getting to your important activations before they have a chance to activate.


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 Post subject: Re: Tau coordinated fire
PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2016 5:59 pm 
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He builds his lists so he has the activation advantage and if he nails my two hardest activations before they can activate that evens the numbers out. He usually hides as many tetras from each formation behind cover as he only needs one for markerlight + blast marker so i can usually only see one or two from each formation. My rough rider screens dont last and as hes all skimmers they're pointless for anything else. Sentinels just die....

The last few games ive really prioritised killing the tetras but it makes for an incredibly frustrating game just dealing with skimmers while the tau sit back, blast me and dig in on overwatch on their objectives

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 Post subject: Re: Tau coordinated fire
PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2016 10:53 pm 
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If there's list tayloring going on it's time to seitch hp your army or ask him to switch it up.

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 Post subject: Re: Tau coordinated fire
PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2016 4:34 am 
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Getting some shooty formations on overwatch will really spoil the day for the incoming tetras.
Shoot out the marklight tetras on point and the rest of the guided missile fire can't be used.
And obviously the firing is less effective.

My markerlight recon formations generally take a bashing with engagements. Doesn't matter
how many units you hide they tend to get all killed off on the combat resolution rolls. Putting
one unit within 30 cm, to ensure it can markerlight, ensures almost any target formation and
its friends can engage it in response.


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 Post subject: Re: Tau coordinated fire
PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2016 8:34 am 
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I felt like I had turned a corner when I realised that. That game I managed to kill a fair few tetras in firefight resolutions but now he sets it up whereby if I charge out to firefight I can't get back into cover afterwards. Then the inevitable return fire sees me off.

The best one was when I charged out, killed the 2 tetras I could reach then rolled a draw on the res roll. As far as we could work out, because i couldnt get any more tetras into firefight range and he didn't counterattack in reply the assault simply ended and i was left in the open. Those poor guardsmen didnt last long after that.

I think my main problem is that I'm struggling to find a unit that can deal with the tetras and not require my big expensive formations getting bogged down with skirmishing with tetras. Hydra batteries have the firepower but one seeker missile usually does for each battery on the first turn...

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 Post subject: Re: Tau coordinated fire
PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2016 12:22 pm 
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In that assault situation you would roll off again. An assault always ends in a broken or destroyed formation.

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 Post subject: Re: Tau coordinated fire
PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2016 12:37 pm 
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Dave wrote:
In that assault situation you would roll off again. An assault always ends in a broken or destroyed formation.

IMO they played it right, the assauilt stalls as nothing is within range.

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 Post subject: Re: Tau coordinated fire
PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2016 3:22 pm 
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From the rulebook
Quote:
If all of the units in the defending formation have been killed
and at least one attacker survives, then the attacker wins and
the assault is over (go straight to 1.12.8 ). If all of the attacking
units directly engaged in the assault are killed then the assault
has stalled and the defender wins (go straight to 1.12.8 ).
'Directly engaged' means being within 15cm of a defending
unit after charge and counter-charge moves have been
completed. If even one of the original attackers that were
within 15cms of the enemy survives, then the attack has not
stalled. In any other case, both sides can call on support (see
1.12.6).


With a draw both sides would counter charge and carry on until a winner is decided.

FAQ answer

Quote:
1.12.7 Work Out Result
Q: What happens if a combat round in
an Assault is a draw, do you
immediately fight another round? And
this round is also a draw do you fight a
third successive round (and so on)?
A: Yes. An Assault has to result in one side
winning. You would continue to fight
Assaults until one side or the other had
won the Assault.


Quote:
Q: In a game we have an Assault that
results in a tie. Consequently we must
fight another round of combat. Both
sides do their counter-charge move
but at the end of the move neither
formation has any units within 15cm
of an enemy unit. Do we resolve this
round of combat (even though no
casualties could be caused) or is the
Assault consider over because there
are no units within 15cm of an enemy
unit?
A: You would need to resolve the new
Assault round, even though no actual
fighting took place. So work out the results
as per 1.12.7 and don't forget to include
the casualties from the first round of the
Assault when determining the winner of
this second round.


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 Post subject: Re: Tau coordinated fire
PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2016 3:48 pm 
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So technically we should've rolled off for the non-round? We didn't check the FAQ to be honest just the assault sequence from the rulebook and treated it like a failed assault.

Is there any thoughts towards amalgamating the rulebook and FAQ together? Just having rules in two different places that seem to often contradict each other seems a bit unnecessary to me.

Thanks for the pointer for how to do it right next time though guys :)

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 Post subject: Re: Tau coordinated fire
PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2016 9:50 pm 
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Interesting thread


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 Post subject: Re: Tau coordinated fire
PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 4:15 am 
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You should have rolled off again, as there were still attacking units that rolled a CC or FF attack. Stalled assaults only happen when all those attackers are dead.

See the Torunament Pack link in my sig, it has the rules and FAQ in one. The FAQs have been cleaned up too.

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 Post subject: Re: Tau coordinated fire
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 12:30 pm 
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What formations, or combinations of formations does Guard have that can drop in troops or walkers, etc to take out forces sitting behind?

In my Dark Eldar army, I have a Slavebringer Assault barge with 4 Talos Pain engines on board.

Perhaps you might invest in a Spaceship, and perhaps some craft to drop troops and units into his area and take his mind off your artillery and leman russes.

Tau very rarely invest in spaceships, and you can then bring yours in on turn 1. Your initiative value is decent, so you should be able to guess where his Tetras are likely to hide, and target the most likely location with MW barrage templates. Then if he has any War Engines hit that with the Pinpoint attack, then strike with any forces that can planetfall right into his area and make his forces react to you, rather than you having to make up lost ground for the expensive formations you could lose.

Having not really read up on Tau, in Epic and what their marker lights do, do the marker lights remove the cover -1 to hit? If so that is such a broken rule. So does the co-ordinated fire rule.

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 Post subject: Re: Tau coordinated fire
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 12:41 pm 
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Steel Legion don't have drop troops of any kind, it's not their style. Much less anything that can planetfall.

Markerlit formations (anything within 30) are +1 to hit. It is of course factored into Tau stats and costs, not even close to "broken" but clearly it is crucial to tau strategy, yes. Some weapons can only shoot at markerlit formations, eg seeker missiles (but they are only AT6+ anyway).

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