Login |  Register |  FAQ
   
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 33 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

AMTL - How do you beat them?

 Post subject: Re: AMTL - How do you beat them?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 10:41 pm 
Hybrid
Hybrid
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 8:30 pm
Posts: 3987
Location: Greenville, SC
Quote:
How about predators to strip shields and air assulting assaults/devs to engage? Could that work?


Preds do indeed work well against titans. Hunting larger titans is painful and probably better to bring in Raiders and termies to do it, but they work great to pick of warhounds. With the larger stuff it's still possible but you should expect heavy losses.

_________________
-Vaaish


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: AMTL - How do you beat them?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 10:54 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 8:24 pm
Posts: 8374
Location: Manalapan, FL
^^
Sounds logical. Good one guys.

_________________
The Artist Formerly Known As Marine Army Champion

-I HAVE NO POINT
-Penal Legion-Fan list
-Help me make Whitescars not suck!


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: AMTL - How do you beat them?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 12:57 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2010 4:23 am
Posts: 700
pati wrote:
Now we have to decide, we are talking about a tournament (so all rounder), or a list planned especially against titans/AMTL. The biggest problem, is that some list work well as all rounders (like eldar, or IG deathstrikes, vultures, etc as we previously discussed here), some list work only if they're specialized against titans! This is why it's hard to play against them -eg. in a tournament, with an army full pf AP/AT and few MW/TK..


Tournament all-rounder lists only.
There's little value discussing how to beat AMTL with lists tailored to beat titans, since step one would be 'tailor your list to beat titans' :D

On a similar note, a lot of the lists used in play tests seem IMHO to have options that not entirely optimised; I don't know if that is because they are fluffy choices, as shown on the model, friendly games or just a new list that people haven't really fully explored the power of yet.

A key element is many lists and games posted are not featuring indirect / blast weapons when the AMTL has so much available. Almost every piece of anti ATML advice includes hiding units out of LOS. Therefore, almost every ATML list should include indirect fire, of which they have some of the game's best.
EG Carapace Landing Pad, Quake Cannons, Vortex, Warp Missiles, Deathstrikes, 10BP Disrupt Barrages, Sonic Disruptor 10BP Ignore Cover Disrupt Barrages, Golgotha Missiles etc.

Including powerful Indirect weapons changes the nature of the game, and it is my honest opinion they're a lot easier to beat if they don't have it.

So, let's assume the AMTL includes some. 8)


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: AMTL - How do you beat them?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 10:31 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2010 3:51 pm
Posts: 577
I struggle massively with my Lost and the Damned against them - too slow, too weak in CC, too rubbish at shooting...

_________________
My EPIC and BFG Blog: https://epicaddiction.wordpress.com/


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: AMTL - How do you beat them?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 11:48 am 
Hybrid
Hybrid
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2011 12:03 pm
Posts: 6001
Location: Leicester UK
I think getting into the mindset that you are going to get horrifically shot up regardless of the outcome can often help too ;)

When dptdexys took me on using his krieg it was an utter bloodbath, but his tactic of 'swamp the titans with dead guardsmen so they can't move' won out in the end... I'd assume massive LATD formations are more than capable of engaging and breaking anything upto and including reaver-sized titans, especially when you factor in daemons..... plaguebearers especially are great for dishing out some good quality attacks and can soak up the return hits, so unless the reaver has a CCW, you're probably only looking at it scoring 1-2 kills, which if you've prepped it and double outnumbered it means you're already winning the combat before you even count any damage against it

_________________
NetEA Space Marine, Imperial Fists and Blood Angels Army Champion

NetEA Red Corsairs Army Champion

My hobby/painting threads

Army Forge List Co-ordinator


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: AMTL - How do you beat them?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 2:06 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 7:39 am
Posts: 54
For Tau it really comes down to making sure you have a formation of AX-10s and another of Barracudas to be on CAP if the ATML have any Thunderbolts as AA. Beyond that a couple fo fromations of Railgun Hammerheads plus a couple fo Recon formations to block and/or provide markerlights. I have found that Tau formations can evaporate quite quickly against ATML so stringing together a couple of retains helps too. If playing with Vior'la the same logic applies but the added MW from Riptides and Morays help the range game with perhaps just one formation of Railheads.

As for Marines I have been racking my brain a lot lately over this and the best I can come up with is making sure you have a SC for the orbital bombardment and to drop a formation of devs to strip shields and place BM of the titan(s) and followup up with termies with a chaplain. I know I could mass Termies but would be suffering against other style lists. We have a local tournament coming up where I know one player is bringing ATML and his is the only list I am struggling to think of a way around. Plus try and play corners so you can better pick the fights you want to enter, and then objective placement ...


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: AMTL - How do you beat them?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 4:20 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2003 7:27 pm
Posts: 4973
Location: Bristol
I'm curious to see what peoples tactics are (more from the perspective of thinking of using AMTL at an upcoming tournament than the other way round). I don't think an army has to be tailored to beat AMTL - I tailored a 3k Salamanders list with Terminators in Land Raider Redeemers (16 deadly ignore cover AP attacks though there were no AP targets) and found it a challenge but managed to win.

I suspect metas and amy lists (Epic-UK or Net-EA) might change a little after the Titan Legions come out to play, armies taking slightly more tools to deal with them.

novemberrain wrote:
I struggle massively with my Lost and the Damned against them - too slow, too weak in CC, too rubbish at shooting...

Questor Titans would be a good choice with their 2 x TK (D3) attacks?


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: AMTL - How do you beat them?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 8:57 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2010 3:51 pm
Posts: 577
But with SR2 you will struggle to ever get them anywhere near - even with decent terrain coverage.

The combination of slow speed and rubbish CC / FF skills make my Lost and the Damned the hardest list I play against titans, especially Revenants! Overall I am not saying that AMTL are overpowered, or LatD underpowered, just that the match up is difficult.

_________________
My EPIC and BFG Blog: https://epicaddiction.wordpress.com/


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: AMTL - How do you beat them?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 9:58 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2003 7:27 pm
Posts: 4973
Location: Bristol
novemberrain wrote:
But with SR2 you will struggle to ever get them anywhere near - even with decent terrain coverage.

Try taking 4 in a 3k list? Get them into position turn 1 and they can't kill/avoid them all. The danger they pose will force them be dealt with, drawing fire and freeing up your other troops.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: AMTL - How do you beat them?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 6:12 pm 
Hybrid
Hybrid

Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 8:35 am
Posts: 4182
Played blind, using netEA AMTL and eldar, UK terrain conventions - infinite height terrain, 12 area pieces
Eldar
Aspects+Autarch+Exarch (avengers, reapers, FDs)
Aspects+2 Exarchs (avengers, reapers, FDs)
Guardians+heavy weapons
Avatar
Rangers
Rangers
Void Spinner
Void Spinner
Falcons (2 Firestorms)
Falcons (2 Firestorms)
Falcons (2 Firestorms)
Wraithship
Vampire
Vampire
Gate

Rangers deploy strung out around halfway behind cover. Everything else hides at the back. Aspects in vampires.Rangers go back on OW and stay as blocking unit against warhounds. Void spinners both sustain on the same warhound hopefully breaking it. Guardians double into cover. Falcons then double behind over and rangers and snipe at warhounds. By then AMTL should be out of activations, fliretorms should provide AA protection from tbolts for the vampires. Ideally they will go first lands and shoots at BTS titan from within FF range 2nd assaults with their supports. Spaceship then pinpoints any shieldless target. Otherwise aspects go at the warhounds trying to get rid of them.

2nd turn + rangers march up within scout ZoC of titans and force the AM to burn activations killing them before they can do anything. Falcons, spinners+aspects+vampire concentrate on killing/breaking titans one by one.

_________________
www.epic-uk.co.uk
NetEA NetERC Human Lists Chair
NetEA Chaos + Black Legion Champion


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: AMTL - How do you beat them?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 6:37 pm 
Hybrid
Hybrid

Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 8:35 am
Posts: 4182
Tau - as before regarding terrain etc
Crisis+Shas'O
Mech FW+Skyray
Mech FW+Skyray+Bonded team+Fire Warriors
Rail HHeads+Skyray
Rail HHeads+Skyray
Pathfinder
Recon A 1 Tetra 5 Piranhas
Recon B 2 Piranhas 4 tetras
Recon C 5 tetras 1 Piranha
Orca
Barracudas
Hero

Normal army tactic is recons A+C combine with alpha strike combined fire guided missile trick - no1 priority is breaking artillery, hero hits WEs, crisis start on OW in cover and are picked up by orca in an attempt to bait the enemy fighters to go at them and get skyrayed. Barracudas CAP. FW wait behind cover and potentially just use their guide missiles turn 1. Hheads both waith behind cover and pick on warhounds. Main theme of the list is all but flyers+crisis have markerlights.

2nd turn hheads target transports, recons restrict movement+provide ML+BMs FW go at markerlit Inf, orca+crisis land+shoot

A lot of these tactics obviously aren't suitable vs AMTL so against them. Everything hides turn 1, recons are strung out overlapping but not intermingled in my half behind cover to prevent Warhounds getting angle to see my FW+heads hiding behind cover. Artillery I'll just have to weather. In reverse of normal I'll throw not throw recons forward initially -orcas, barracudas, crisis and FW will stall by rallying or OW or placing BMs when its possible to do without exposing themselves. At the end of turn 1 (after TL are activated out) recons double forward and get as many titans as possible in their ZoC.
Turn 2 ideally no titans should be able to move without shifting 2 formations (3 recons+PF) forcing them to burn quite a few activations. Try and break as many titans as possible with BMs. Both hheads+hero try and strip shields and then pinpoint BTs titan or if that's not possible multiple warhounds.
Ideally turn 3 either BTS or most of the warhounds will be dead or broken. Then any surviving scouts try and restrict movement, guided missiles will help rebreak things and I'll only have lost the majority of the scouts giving me a bug activation advantage to work on the objectives

Obv

_________________
www.epic-uk.co.uk
NetEA NetERC Human Lists Chair
NetEA Chaos + Black Legion Champion


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: AMTL - How do you beat them?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 6:54 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 8:24 pm
Posts: 8374
Location: Manalapan, FL
Are these general strategies you're listing here or actual games? The wording ina few places is unclear.

_________________
The Artist Formerly Known As Marine Army Champion

-I HAVE NO POINT
-Penal Legion-Fan list
-Help me make Whitescars not suck!


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: AMTL - How do you beat them?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 6:57 pm 
Hybrid
Hybrid

Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 8:35 am
Posts: 4182
General strategies, but that have been used and worked in actual games several times as I haven't got an activation-by-activation rundown of those games.

_________________
www.epic-uk.co.uk
NetEA NetERC Human Lists Chair
NetEA Chaos + Black Legion Champion


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: AMTL - How do you beat them?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 12:09 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 7:20 pm
Posts: 5391
Location: London, UK
Armies that use "commander" are often better able to assault titans together with the usual prepping etc. For example I like Eldar Shining spears with the Autarch commanding two jetbike formations to join in the assault - something I took to Britcon 2009 where the list was geared to have many such combined assaults.

Equally I have tried using multiple Cobras (in the original / NetEA stats with TK barrage templates) to kill titans.

That said, I agree with the others that potentially there are few 'tournament' style armies that can deal with AMTL battle-titans directly unless that capability is built into the list - which usually renders the list less capable of dealing with other opponents. So the usual strategies are listed above - kill off the smaller formations so that the AMTL cannot gain sufficient Objectives, and use the faster moving formations to threaten / contest objectives.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: AMTL - How do you beat them?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2014 11:58 pm 
Purestrain
Purestrain
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2008 9:04 pm
Posts: 5539
Location: UK
jimmyzimms wrote:
Anyone got ideas around:
[…]
Chaos


Just posted a bat rep for chaos vs AMTL here: viewtopic.php?f=84&t=28453

N.B.: This was vs. UK AMTL not NetEA, however, it might still be relevant in terms of facing a lot of hard to kill plasma toting WEs with a list lacking in shooting.

Going against one of the main themes of this thread, hiding from titans wasn't really an option here. The only way for chaos to break (battle)titans is through engagements (… and the titans had ignore cover inferno cannons). So it was pretty high casualty. Chaos lost one formation and had 3 break in the first turn, but managed to position for three key assaults in turn 2.

_________________
AFK with real life, still checking PMs


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 33 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


Powered by phpBB ® Forum Software © phpBB Group
CoDFaction Style by Daniel St. Jules of Gamexe.net