Login |  Register |  FAQ
   
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 81 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next

Ork General Strategy and Unit Commentary - 5-21-10 repost

 Post subject: Ork General Strategy and Unit Commentary - 5-21-10 repost
PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 4:16 pm 
Purestrain
Purestrain

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm
Posts: 9609
Location: Nashville, TN, USA
Reposted because the original thread was scrapped due to the board crash.
============

Ork Strategy Notes for combined-arms army lists. Infantry waves work a bit differently.

General Comments:

Orks are an attrition army. You will get chewed up crossing the board so get used to the idea, don't get discouraged and press on. Orks are nasty once they get in close. Being overly cautious will cause you to lose momentum. Just don't waste troops.

Targets of Opportunity. Orks are an attrition force (notice that's come up twice now?). It's okay to take risks to do damage to the enemy. It's okay to risk being out of cover or opening up holes in your battle line if it means you can take the fight to the enemy. Swap units freely, as you have more and they become more dangerous the closer you get. Basically, you'll want to take 2 and a half turns doing as much damage to the enemy as possible and the second half of Turn 3 worrying about objectives if you need to.

"Alleys" for infantry cover. Try to pick deployment that provides a path of infantry cover across the board. You want to be able to hop from cover to cover with each move, so 25-30cm apart is ideal. Closer is necessary for the slower Gunz.

==

Unit Comments

Oddboyz: Oddboyz are a massive boost to firepower. ANY Ork formation that intends to be shooty at any point in the game should take them. These are one of the few things you are concerned with protecting. Philosophies on Zzaps versus Soopaguns vary. Personally, I prefer Zzaps for the high hit probability and TK ability. However, Soopagunz are good for mass targets and especially when taken in pairs to take advantage of the barrage table break point at 4BP can inflict more damage against a lot of formations.

Grots: Grots are made for assaults; think of them as expendable assault-boosters. I used to keep them in front all the time, but nobz help remove so many BMs it's often not worth it to let the grots take the hits from long-range fire. Grots should be close to the front so they can charge/countercharge forward during assaults, but it's probably best to keep a few boyz out front to take hits from shooting. It can be worth it, but consider carefully whether to use them outside of assaults.

Gunfortresses and Battlefortresses: These units are problematic for many players. They are relatively lightly armored compared to other similarly sized war engines (no Reinforced Armor), rendering them especially vulnerable to both Macroweapon and multi-TK weapons. As a result, they are often seen as more fragile than the individual wagonz transports. One effective strategy to offset the fortress's vulnerabilities is to overwhelm the opponent's special weapons with numbers. By taking a large number of fortresses and other relatively high-armor Ork units, an Ork player can force the enemy to make difficult choices about where to apply limited numbers of MW and TK attacks. Multiple formations with fortresses or Stompas will give an opponent a target rich environment, but it can still be done with reasonably priced formations. If you take only one or a few forts, the MW and TK will focus on the fortresses and they will die fast and gruesomely.

Also, EUK and NetEA are recommending a 10 point reduction for Forts, so if you are using either set of revised lists, don't forget to apply the discount.

==

Formation Comments

Warband: There are, imho, really 3 kinds of warbands - horde, mechanized, and supported.

From Nikki Rice on Ork Horde Warbands:
Quote:
Warband: These form the spine of the Ork army and fill a key role in generic ork strategy. Frequently they will have very little direct impact, don't expect your boyz mobs to take out too many units. Their chief role is to draw fire away from your more potent formations, and this is a role they excel at. Your opponent ignores your boyz mobs at his peril though, if the boyz are allowed to advance unhindered accross the battlefield and successfully engage they enemy they will cause serious damage in close combat and use their weight of numbers to rout formations in an assault. I recommend garrisoning boyz formations at the start of the game to get them a head-start at rushing the opponents positions.


A mechanized warband is surprisingly fast, much like the KoS. The wagons add considerable ranged fire and FF ability as well, making them a good double move/support assault option. Generally, the addition of wagonz turns a heavily CC-oriented formation into more of a general purpose formation. Flakwagons are a good wagon to use for firepower because the warband has 30cm range anyway and, of course, battlewagons have more transport capacity. Gunwagons rarely make a good option to mount infantry.

As far as a supported warband, that's reinforced with walkers or big gunz. Personally, I have had substantial success with a mix of Stompas, Dreads and Kans mixed in. The warband can still garrison. The boyz can get vehicular cover bonuses from the walkers if you have to get out in the open, and the walkers generally have better firepower than the boyz. Using Big Gunz for support can turn the formation into a big, tough, but less shooty version of the Gunzmob and can also be quite useful.

Stormboyz: I suggest taking them with 1-2 Deth Koptas. The mob will retain the ability to garrison (Stormboyz are scouts) and the Koptas give the formation the ability to place BMs at up to 90cm (60cm move +30cm range). They are a bit vulnerable due to being LV, but have a 4+ save. They make an okay addition to Warbands in Landas, with their Jump Packs allowing a 15cm dismount move so the Orks can get into more CC. Most people, however, prefer other options for Landa loads.

Kult of Speed: Fast, potentially shooty and good in assaults. These aren't necessarily very good as line troops, but they are great for plugging holes or for flanking. They are good for supporting a run into heavy resistance, but in a situation like that they need to be used in combination with durable formations. The formation works best with a single dominant type of unit, i.e. almost all bikes or all buggies or all skorchas, rather than a mix. Personally, the only unit mixing I do is adding a couple Buggies to get 30cm range for placing BMs.

They are, of course, optimal when used in multi-formation assaults. They can double move a long way to support another formation's assault, or they can assault a fair distance to trigger an assault that another formation is set up to support.

Blitz Brigade: Take flakwagons. You have the speed to get in range most of the time, so the 15cm range difference is usually nominal. The average hits inflicted is the same and you get the AA. The consensus opinion is that the optimized Blitz Brigade is the so-called "Zzap Brigade" composed of 1 Zzap wagon, 1 Gunwagon, and 2 flakwagons. The Gunwagon is to help mitigate suppression that would otherwise go against the Zzap gun, keeping it's effective range up even after the formation takes BMs. Some people will substitute Soopagunz for the Zzap, especially if fielding a Big or Uge Brigade, where the barrage points for the Soopagunz add up. A minority choice is to take 1-2 Dethkoptas so as to have the better armor save in the front of the formation.

Stompas: Stompas are hard to use effectively. I'm convinced at this point that the way to take them are in a mixed formation - Stompas, Dreads and Kans. Use the cheap units to bring the unit count up for Mob Up. Lead with the Stompas. They can shrug off more fire as you close range, keeping total BM count lower, and you don't want them suppressed because they are in the back of the formation. Once you're up close enough to threaten assault the Dreads and Kanz are actually a little better for the points. If you find yourself facing MW/TK fire, you can throw the Kans out front as a sacrifice to guard the more valuable units. Consensus opinion seems to be that unless you have a very specific purpose in mind the 3-gun option is better than the 'Ammer, especially if you mix in Dreads and Kanz which have MWCC attacks.

Big Gunz: These units get an unfair bad rep in my opinion. They represent decent firepower and FF for the Ork list. They can be used as a base of fire or they can consistently double move toward the enemy, wearing them down with their large volume of fire and initiating firefights if they get close enough. Pay special attention to having proper "alleys" of terrain as above.

The key to using them is the right choice of Extras. Obviously, you can build them out of Big or Uge Gunzmob formations. This allows lots of cheap gunz and access to multiple Oddboyz upgrades but they are somewhat fragile. Add Nobz. They will add considerably to the staying power of large Gunzmobz. Nobz help greatly in reducing BMs, which you will need because Gunz don’t count for Mob Up bonuses.

Always add Oddboyz if possible (see above).

The second way of building a mob is by starting with the standard Warband and adding Big Gunz units as Extras. Technically, this isn’t a "Gunzmob" but from a tactical standpoint, they function similarly. This is more expensive, but has obvious advantages as far as making the mob much more durable. Either approach is completely valid and you should probably choose based on your personal preferences and play style.

Landas and air assaults: I prefer to load them with Warbands + boyz/grots. I crunched the numbers in detail long ago based on all sorts of factors, but in the end each grot is worth roughly +0.5 in an assault resolution which for an alpha-strike style formation like Ork air assault, is simply invaluable. However, other combos have their own advantages. Many people prefer adding Nobz for the raw CC power and a few like adding Stormboyz for the 15cm dismount becuase a lot of the time you won't be able to get all the Boyz into CC.

Some prefer taking Kults of Speed (10 Warbikes for CC or 10 Skorchas for FF - 250 points) for the extra tactical flexibility after the initial assault. In the Speed Freeks list, the option to take 10 Outriders with the price cut for a Big formation is quite effective. If you're in an especially Orky "leave 'em behind if they can't keep up" mood, you could take a Kult of Speed with 2 Boyz/Grotz. Sacrifice them in the initial assault and if any survive, just drive off without them (You get BMs for the units being "killed" but, Hey! You're an Ork!)

Don't be in a rush to assault. Landas are great air support, especially against infantry. Also, you want to pick your eventual air assault location carefully. Boyz will have limited mobility once on the ground so make sure they can get someplace useful. It's okay to spend a turn with a loaded Landa just strafing the enemy. They are pretty tough and can take a reasonable amount of AA fire without being in grave danger. OTOH, don't be afraid to sacrifice them (again, attrition force - 3rd mention) if you can hit a high priority or juicy target. Just make sure it's worth it.

Fightabommas: In larger groups these can brave flak and still hit a target. I generally build a formation up to at least 6 before starting a second formation. If I'm going air-heavy, I'll do a formation of 9 because it can drive through a huge amount of flak and still be nasty and a formation of 3 for activations and picking off lightly protected targets. Due to expense, you should probably be a bit more careful with these but as with all things Ork it's sometimes worth it to sacrifice them to do damage.

Gargants: They can be very nice, especially for their wicked FF ability, which is rare for Orks, and a brutally tough "Break Their Spirit" goal. But 650-850 points can buy a heck of a lot of other Ork units. I do field them and they do well but I only do so occasionally because my personal preference is for the horde.

As far as weapon choice, Gargants gain little by choosing Soopagunz, so go with the Zzap. The most popular Great Gargant choice seems to be the Lifta Droppa, but taking the Twin Soopagun brings another template to the barrage so it is a viable option as well.

Ork Spacecraft: Due to a variety of factors, I don't think they will ever be viable in a tournament scenario. I pretty much consider them to be for scenario play.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ork General Strategy and Unit Commentary - 5-21-10 repos
PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 2:19 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 4:38 am
Posts: 303
Location: Utah, Texas, or some Pacific Island
As always Neal, as is all of your work, an excellent read. Thank You :)

To what you have written may I humbly add the following.........
(1) Skorchas are a nice addition to a big or uge Kult of Speed as you can often add enough of them to bump up the formations FF ability in assaults both in the attack and the defense. Otherwise I agree keep them pure one type
(2) Soopa Guns may not be as cost effective as a Zzapp Gun, and I agree, except it does serve as a great way to keep the enemy from bunching up if no Fighta-Bommas are taken.

Again Neal thank you for the great read, now I gotta break out my Orks and give some of the above a go............. ;D

Jaldon

_________________
I know a dead parrot when I see one and I'm looking at one right now.
Tyranid AC


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ork General Strategy and Unit Commentary - 5-21-10 repos
PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 2:39 pm 
Purestrain
Purestrain

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm
Posts: 9609
Location: Nashville, TN, USA
From a thread specifically on defending against SM Terminators:
Morgan Vening wrote:
Our group tends towards Marine players (2 Marine Only, 2 Marine Primary, myself (SM/IG/Ork) and Frogbear (All, eventually)). There seems to be a running concensus that Terminators and Teleport are overpowered. I don't necessarily believe that, but I'm curious what other players see as the best way to defeat a heavy Terminator army with Orks.

What would you take if you expected your opponent to take approx half their army in Terminators?

Option 1: Heavy infantry. They can drop 3+ MWCC attacks on grots all day long and you'll crush them in assaults with outnumbering bonuses. Air assaults work with this once they are on the ground and Landas strafe with a large number of AP attacks.

Option 2: Stormboyz and Oddboyz. Use lots of Blitz Brigades with Zzaps and Soopaguns and use Stormboyz formations to screen.

Option 3: Fast stuff. Take the hit from the initial teleport swarm, then just run away from the 15cm move Termies and engage them as desired.

Obviously, various parts of those can work together, e.g. screening your fast stuff with Stormboyz, which are also fast, and putting Zzaps on your fast Blitz Brigades.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ork General Strategy and Unit Commentary - 5-21-10 repos
PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 2:48 pm 
Purestrain
Purestrain

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm
Posts: 9609
Location: Nashville, TN, USA
From the "Making Orks Work" thread, which discusses the similarities and differences in the 40K Ork tactics and the Epic Ork army function:
studderingdave wrote:
ok, im an ork player to the core, i have over 15,000 points of 40k scale orks, i also have a 3,000+ point ork fleet in BFG, an Orc team in bloodbowl, as well as a growing Orc army in Warhammer fantasy. hell, im even sketching out an ork TATTOO for my left arm for the spring.

my first game of epic was with orks naturally, i amassed a good sized force and went to learn, and it SUCKED. i think i missed the boat on how to use orks because they always were breaking and not killing much.

now i have some experience with the game, i want to start orks again but not until i get a good grasp from the vets on how to use them. i like gargants, i LOVE gargants i should say, i have 2 stompas and 2 gargants in 40k scale, so i would naturally lean towards them in epic, but what are some fundamentals to remember when playing orks in epic? do i have to lose my 40k metnality of them?

...

my main ork tactic in a 40k game is to swamp the opponenet with 3 large units of boyz, with 9 killa kans up front and ghazkull calling the waaagh for the final charge on turn 2 or 3. with fast movers like stormboyz riding up the flanks and kommandos coming in from behind to tighten the noose.

can orks in epic work well without large numbers? or is that a staple for them? either way i wouldnt mind.


This can work in Epic as well. Control the board with huge numbers and squeeze the enemy so they cannot maneuver. I'm not sure what you mean about being "always broken". It's pretty hard to break Big Warbands barring a lucky firefight assault and with the WAAAGH! rule they usually rally and with Nobz they remove hordes of blast markers. Some of the other formations without Nobz have a bit more trouble, but Big/Uge KoS have enough numbers to take a serious beating and the Waaagh! bonus alone keeps them going for a long time.

MoK's response:
Man of kent wrote:
here's a nasty 3k list i've seen used with LOTS of infantry; i hated playing against it!

-Uge Warband
-Uge Warband
-Normal Warband +2 Boyz w/grots
-Normal Warband +2 Boyz w/grots
-6 Stormboyz
-Landa
-Landa
-Normal Stompamob + Supastompa
-Normal Big Gunz + ZZAP Gun
-Normal Blitz Brigade + ZZap Gun (including 1 Flakwagon)
-Big Blitz Brigade +2 Soopaguns (including 4 flakwagons)

There MAY be some upgrades that i've missed out but it's a brutal list; the two normal warbands go in the landers and the two 'uge mobs of infantry usually garrison and enter onto overwatch. If you've got the infantry horde to do it then it can be great fun: PS: there's a real GENIUS thing to do with the Big Gunz; a prize to the first person (not the owner of the list though!) who can spot what it is!


Quote:
how does the gargant mob list fare against other lists? i find myself gravitating towards it as i like vehicles more then infantry in epic (at least from my experience with my first army, the minervans)

It seems to do pretty well but it can vary widely depending on the force it's facing. Against certain armies it will clean up but against others it will take a pounding before it can do much. Anything with lots of Disrupt, MW, TK and/or Lance weapons will cause it major problems. It can actually be a bit vulnerable to artillery, of all things, because the barrage rules give so many attacks that they can strip shields very quickly.

Most of the forces I've seen have tended to take one Great Gargant to get the Supreme Commander and a bunch of Kustom Gargants or Krawlas to keep the activation count up. Basic Gargants are normally in short supply as a result. The remaining formations are usually a few Loota or Snappa mobs for holding ground and/or initiating assaults.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ork General Strategy and Unit Commentary - 5-21-10 repos
PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 3:12 pm 
Purestrain
Purestrain

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm
Posts: 9609
Location: Nashville, TN, USA
From a thread on building very infantry-heavy ork forces (possibly even entirely infantry):
Spectrar Ghost wrote:
I am considering doing a Ghazghkull's Warhorde list, probably 3k, centered around footsloggers. It would be primarily 'Uge Warbands on foot supported by Big Gunz, with very limited mobile assets (probably no more than 2 Blitz or Speed Freek formations).

Tactics, such as they are, would be to garrison near the centerline, and do a mass charge towards objectives. Would an army like this be viable? Specifically, would it 1) Have the movement to grab objectives, 2) Have the sustainability to soak incoming fire, and 3) Be able to actually do enough damage to take BTS?

The only serious Ork player I know plays a heavily mechanized list. In fact in a recent tourney, he took no infantry save a single Stormboyz formation. This would therefore be a departure both from what most players in my area are used to, and from my own treadhead tendancies.

A starting point would be a list like:

Uge Warband 500
Warlord

Uge Warband 500

Uge Warband 500

Uge Warband 500

Uge Mekboy Gunzmob 510
Flakwagon
3 Oddboyz (Soopagun)

Uge Blitz Brigade 485
12 Gunwagonz
Flakwagon
2 Oddboyz (Soopa-Zzap-Gun)

2995


A player that realizes what you are doing will put the objectives as far back as possible to keep you from having a center-line garrison. Fortunately, if you stretch out a warband, you can reach close to the middle of the board anyway. However, the most you can effectively garrison off a formation is about 2 Warbands. So, that's really only 4 garrisons, or possibly just 3 if the enemy places the objectives close together as well. More than that and you run out of space.

You could, however, put in a couple of Stormboyz formations. Those could garrison farther back, allowing you to garrison 3 formations on an objective without crowding, but are fast enough to move up and plug holes. Also, because the normal boyz are slow and sometimes cannot reach Engage range, having some fast infantry will allow you to double/shoot with the footslogger formations, then trigger an Engage with the Stormboyz with the Warband in support. Stormboyz' ZoC will help with area denial and their speed might allow you to counter-attack when the enemy does get a bite on one of your mobz.

I strongly recommend putting Nobz with the Big Gunz. Gunz don't count for Mob Up, so the formations don't rally as easily as the other big Ork mobz. You need the Nobz to make sure you shed as many BMs as possible when you succeed. Big Gunz formations might also be a decent choice for the "second row" garrison(s). They have the range to be behind the Warbands and still shoot at stuff in front of your wave of troops. They're too slow to count on physically plugging holes in the line, but their firepower can be considerable on Sustain, possibly knocking an opponent back out of a hole they opened up.

Others have addressed the activation issue and the need for mixing in some Big formations. In addition, it might be worth it to build mobz using Boyz/Grotz instead of just the size upgrades. More units and more Grotz will help. So, instead of spending 150 points to go from Big to Uge, you might buy a Big mob and add 6 Boyz/Grotz with those 150 points.

Another thing to consider is that you are likely to run out of cover. There are only so many "alleys" of cover you can use to move across the board. An option along those lines is to reinforce a warband with Stompas, Dread and/or Kanz. They are armored vehicles, so you can put them in the open and put the boyz in contact with them to gain cover saves. If they do have access to cover, the Walkers get rerolls on dangerous terrain, so they can wade through it with the infantry.

Others pointed out the lack of AA. In addition to that, artillery will shred a force with this much infantry, packed together like it will undoubtedly be. You need some deepstrike capabilities. Fightabommas are an effective answer to both. They are good AT aircraft for hitting artillery or other high-priority targets and they can be used to Intercept enemy aircraft.

Also, note that you could scatter Flakwagons all over the place and still garrison. The 15cm speed garrison requirements allow you to have 1 unit that is more than 15cm move. If you want to go light on aircraft for style reasons, you could add a Flakwagon to every warband and still garrison.

As to suggestions on formations, these will depend on your idea of how "pure" of a footslogger army you want, but...

Warband + 2 Stompas + 2 Kanz + Flakwagon - 435 points
Put the Stompaz out front so AT fire hits the 4+RA first. This packs as much firepower and FF ability as the larger mobz, though it's obviously fewer units and therefore less durable.

Big Gunz Mob + 2 Oddboyz + 2 Nobz - 395 points
Packs almost as much barrage as the 3-Oddboy Uge version but obviously can't take as many casualites. However, removing an extra 2 BMs by the Nobz means it maintains fire capacity just about as well. Keep the Nobz off the front line to save them, but close enough they can counter-charge forward if the formation is assaulted.

Stormboyz + 2 Deth Koptaz - 220 points.
You can add a couple more Stormboyz and/or Koptas to beef them if you like, but like this they are flexible and good activation-boosters. The Koptaz allow the formation to place BMs and since they are skimmers, can lurk behind terrain the Stormboyz are in and fire pop-up.

==

You will need to concentrate on an area-denial strategy. Use the Big/Uge warbands to fence in the enemy so they cannot maneuver. If you squeeze them, you will eventually get the chance to assault. You will take lots of casualties but you cannot let the line open up. If they get a chance to break out you're screwed. Maintaining the battle line is very important so you get those Turn 3 and, probably, Turn 4 assault opportunities.

Keep your Grotz off the front line, but close enough they can countercharge in front of the boyz for any assaults. The enemy will almost certainly try to FF, and the Grotz are the best weapon you have in that situation.

As noted, Stormboyz will be extremely useful for both area denial and the ability to counterattack if the enemy tries to break through your lines.

You'll likely run into the most trouble with highly mobile forces and heavy air assault/planetfall armies. Mobile forces can re-deploy and concentrate on a single part of the line to break out or end run. Planetfall and air assault can bypass your battle line entirely. There are limited options for these. Against mobility, reinforce your lines as best you can. Against air and planetfall, deploy more deeply, possibly even leaving formations as reserves on the Blitz (remember, the Blitz is an objective and you can garrison on it if you think you want to - to be just forward of the normal deployment zone or to have something on your Blitz on OW).

Those kinds of armies are yet more reasons that Stormboyz will be extremely useful for an infantry-based army, as their Scout ZoC can help bounce the enemy away from optimal LZs for air/planetfall and their mobility will help reinforce lines if the enemy uses a concentrated deployment.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ork General Strategy and Unit Commentary - 5-21-10 repos
PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 2:02 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:56 pm
Posts: 733
Location: San Jose, CA (Los Gatos)
Man of kent wrote:
PS: there's a real GENIUS thing to do with the Big Gunz; a prize to the first person (not the owner of the list though!) who can spot what it is!


I need to know! :P

Im studying this list to help a friend build a competent list. He isnt overly fond of the game and so I need to know how to help him the best way I can.

The other thing presented in this article was about Stormboyz getting a 15cm dismount from Landas? I cant find that in the rules, although its likely right under my nose...


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ork General Strategy and Unit Commentary - 5-21-10 repos
PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 10:42 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 4:38 am
Posts: 303
Location: Utah, Texas, or some Pacific Island
Kealios:
Page 51 4.2.5 Landing: Second sentence: After the aircraft has landed, any units being transported may disembark and are placed within 5cm of the transport aircraft (skimmers and units with jump packs can be placed within 15cms, to represent them dropping fromthe aircraft as it comes in to land).

I cannot reveal the secret behind the Big Gunz.

However, for you and your friends sake I can recomend two things............

First, read the article "Building and Using Epic-A Armies" found here under "Newbies and Old Gronards Building and Using Epic-A" it is full of information for new players, and gives them a good head start into being competative on the gaming table.

Second: IMHO The Ork Horde is the most flexible of all the Epic-A lists printed to date. Anything you can think of for the orgainization of the army will work if you are fielding Orks. In fact it is pretty hard to go wrong when building an Ork Army. This isn't because, individually, the units are anything fantastic, they aren't in most cases. However, you can field so many of them that no matter how bad the battle may seem to be going in turn two there always seems to be enough Ork units around to pull it out in turn three ;D

This same situation has happened to me more times then I can count, and I have watched Rich pull out battles with his Orks that in turn two I thought he was doomed. Basically don't give up on the boyz no matter how bad the situation looks, if you stick it out, and keep at it, there is a good chance they will still pull it out. Actually this is very Orky and I consider the Ork Horde List to have come real close to having the same feel as the background describs (Hey nothing in life is ever perfect)

Hope this helps and cheers,
Jaldon

_________________
I know a dead parrot when I see one and I'm looking at one right now.
Tyranid AC


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ork General Strategy and Unit Commentary - 5-21-10 repos
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 4:55 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:56 pm
Posts: 733
Location: San Jose, CA (Los Gatos)
jaldon454 wrote:
I cannot reveal the secret behind the Big Gunz.


Then take it out :P

Im not a rookie, but just trying to get a solid plan to present to my friend. He has a ton of models but the few games we've played have left a sour taste in his mouth. I think he came into it with expectations that didnt get met, so with a solid list and a solid set of tactics, I plan on walking him through one last attempt to show him how awesome the game is. Thats why im studying this currently :)


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ork General Strategy and Unit Commentary - 5-21-10 repos
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 5:53 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 4:38 am
Posts: 303
Location: Utah, Texas, or some Pacific Island
Ok then we know your friend is using Orks, what army are you using? Much of the Ork strategy and tactics is going to depend on what army they are facing.

If it is Eldar or SM then a containment strategy of Big/Uge Warbands, backed up by some Big/Uge Fast Attack formations works well. Basically the Big/Uge Warbands, one per 1,000 points works well, forms a containment line across the table preventing the Eldar/SM from being able to maneuver as freely as they would like. It also forces them to punch a hole in the line real quick or get boxed in. Most of the time I like to take a Stompa Mob with a Dread meat shield to back up the front line Warbands. Behind this comes the Fast Attack formations of Kults of Speed and Blitz Brigades (Big and Uge respectively). They smash into the enemy at their weakest point and drive as deep into their rear areas as possible, forming a sorta hammer and anvil effect. A Landa with some boys/Stormboyz crammed inside, these are Orks afterall so no creature comforts, can be formed to replace one of the Fast Attack formations. This formation has a tendancy to 'off balance' small formation high maneuver armies as they try to face what is in front of them while trying to cover their rear areas.

Against Horde type armies, such as Siege and Guard, the same army as above will work just as well however a containment strategy isn't really needed. In this case it is not a bad idea to mass the Warbands into a wave attack while the Fast Attack formations try to crush one enemy flank, using mass numbers, and then roll them up.

Fighta-Bommerz are a real asset and should be stuck in the list somewhere, and even though I am not myself a fan of airpower, I have seen them used to good effect for the Orks.

Big Gunz Mobs used as fire platforms for Oddboyz using Zzapps or Soopas makes an interesting support formation for Orks and provides them with a formation to hold down objectives while the rest of the army goes in. The enemy is often stuck between a rock and a hard place when these Big Gunz Mobs (w/Oddboyz) are floating around. Basically the enemy has a ton of mad screaming Orks bearing down on them while the Oddboyz are picking them apart at range. Who do you engage?

I could provide much more detail if I knew what army he would be facing, and I would be happy to do so.

Jaldon

_________________
I know a dead parrot when I see one and I'm looking at one right now.
Tyranid AC


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ork General Strategy and Unit Commentary - 5-21-10 repos
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 2:30 pm 
Purestrain
Purestrain

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm
Posts: 9609
Location: Nashville, TN, USA
Big Gunz: Not being the original poster, I'm not sure what he means by a "genius" tactic. My personal preference for using Big Gunz is to add Zzaps and garrison the mob on Overwatch. With 2-4 Zzaps total on OW (depending on mob size and composition), they can often put a hefty hit on the advance maneuver elements from the opposing army. As an area denial strategy, it's a great addition to Orks' containment-through-numbers ability.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ork General Strategy and Unit Commentary - 5-21-10 repos
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 1:25 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 4:38 am
Posts: 303
Location: Utah, Texas, or some Pacific Island
My buddy Rich was the first one to use it in our group, a long long time ago, and he has been aggrevating me with it ever since :D

When I break in a new player I put them through a couple of 1,000 point mini-battles on a 4'x4' (120cmx120cm) table with one objective in the middle, one blitz for each player, and NO War Engines. I ususally knock myself back to 700-800 points for the battle so it is far more challenging for me and my opponent ( I never tell em I am doing it).

The first two to three 3,000 point battles I restrict myself to 2,500 points, again not telling my opponent, again so it is more challenging for both of us. I only restrict myself to the NO War Engine rule. Kieth is our other player that doesn't mind being a 'teacher' and he does the same thing.

Most of the time these newbies have picked up the workings of the game by the second or third 3,000 point battle, and have developed their own working strategy and tactics. The majority go on to have a real good time playing the game. Sure they do lose a good number of their early 'on there own equal terms battles' but they never feel like they are out of the fight so they come back for more. In a few months they are starting to kick gronard butt, and are a force to contend with ;D

Jaldon

_________________
I know a dead parrot when I see one and I'm looking at one right now.
Tyranid AC


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ork General Strategy and Unit Commentary - 5-21-10 repos
PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 6:47 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:56 pm
Posts: 733
Location: San Jose, CA (Los Gatos)
Thanks for the tips!

I play Eldar, which he hates, so for this battle I will be fielding (most likely) my Sisters of Battle army. Basically, they are close-in Marines without a ton of artillery, and have some good hand-to-hand units which should provide some sport for the Orks.

One day soon I'll be running my Krieg army, but I dont own enough of the IG or SM units to put anything out besides Eldar and Sisters.

He must have played before, as he even owns some 'Eavy Metal-painted gargants, but he doesnt like the maneuvering aspect of the game. Im almost done making his list for him, using this thread and what models he owns, and hope to have a go with him within the next few weeks.

Thanks again, all!


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ork General Strategy and Unit Commentary - 5-21-10 repos
PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 7:19 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2007 11:52 am
Posts: 3075
Location: Bristol, UK
nealhunt wrote:
Big Gunz: Not being the original poster, I'm not sure what he means by a "genius" tactic. My personal preference for using Big Gunz is to add Zzaps and garrison the mob on Overwatch. With 2-4 Zzaps total on OW (depending on mob size and composition), they can often put a hefty hit on the advance maneuver elements from the opposing army. As an area denial strategy, it's a great addition to Orks' containment-through-numbers ability.


Yeah! That's the one! I only thought it was genius because I'd never seen it done before!

_________________
MoK's Painting Blog
Now Showing:
Mok's Modular Modern Messy Guard Army


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ork General Strategy and Unit Commentary - 5-21-10 repos
PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 2:29 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 4:38 am
Posts: 303
Location: Utah, Texas, or some Pacific Island
Quote:
He must have played before, as he even owns some 'Eavy Metal-painted gargants, but he doesnt like the maneuvering aspect of the game.


I am confused by this statement. Do you mean the activation sequence, or actually maneuvering forces on the table, or the way individual formations maneuver?

Jaldon

_________________
I know a dead parrot when I see one and I'm looking at one right now.
Tyranid AC


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ork General Strategy and Unit Commentary - 5-21-10 repos
PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 5:23 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:56 pm
Posts: 733
Location: San Jose, CA (Los Gatos)
He looks at the 6mm models and thinks, "there's no way that formation should be able to march 105cm!". The difference in time scale doesnt really matter. He also isnt 100% fond of the victory conditions being "known", but then again, his favorite board game has changing conditions, so...there's no accounting for taste :)

E:A is about moving formations into areas that they can be effective when the call for action comes...ie Double Tapping to give support fire to an assault, clipping assaults, march moves on Turn 4 to grab objectives, etc. In fact, moving is like 80% of the game, I think.

He just needs to wrap his mind around this. He may never love it, but he's my good friend and I love it, so, by default, he must play it a few times a year :) If he ENJOYS it during those friend-mandated times, all the better.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 81 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


Powered by phpBB ® Forum Software © phpBB Group
CoDFaction Style by Daniel St. Jules of Gamexe.net