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Dark Eldar Army List 2017

 Post subject: Re: Dark Eldar Army List 2017
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 10:27 am 
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Revenents get a 3+ holo field shield is only lost if you successfully crit it. They can get their 3+ save even from TK weapons and also in CC from TK weapons, They have 2 Revenants that also jump move 35cm have a combined DC of 6, for only 150 points more They get 2 x 2+MW shots at range 45cm each, and this is backed up by 2 shots each that are AA 6+/AT6+/AP5+. So 4 x AA weapons, and they can be set 15cm apart to increase the zone of AA denial.

Revenents are good, I would say better. The Tormentor is the only ground based unit that is not a grounded WE transport that can provide AA. If you want to reduce the value of the AA to 6+, then provide more options for ground based AA such as optional upgrades for 1 x barge of pleasure in a formation at 25 points for a 30cm AA 6+ Splinter missile turret mount.

The ability to have a ground based AA unit is one of the things that has severely hampered the survivability of DE units that get broken. Most enemy can strafe the unit and wipe it out without worrying about DE aircraft which might have activated that turn, or have been shot down.

If you want to tone the Tormentor down, then drop its shields down to 5. It is a severe drain on the DE army list already and part of the very restricted 1/3 allocation. Most often it is the BTS, and this means the enemy just concentrates fire on it, and kills it off. Yes it takes time, but once done, the DE army have given up the BTS, and you then can move your own 35cm jump pair of titans around killing off everything without too much care for enemy return fire as your 3+ save is almost an invul save but better.

By rights the Tormentor should have 4 shadowfields and 6DC. It should be the equivalent of 2 Vessels of Pain. However it is weaker, and the 6 shields are there because it can not regenerate them any more in the test list. In one test game, I lost 4 shields in 1 salvo of shooting from a pair of revenent titans that were 45cm away (to far to charge them, and get into CC rather than FF). They retained and shot it up with falcons removing the shields, and a DC. I pulled it back to protect my BTS rather than have it wiped out by a pair of healthy Revenants in an engagement.

It is possible to kill them off. At 500 points you still need it to take time to do that though.

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 Post subject: Re: Dark Eldar Army List 2017
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:46 pm 
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You can assault revenants and win 3+ holo fields is crazy i know. But the tormentor i tried to think of armies that could deal with it with out using the whole army to take it down. I could only think of eldar and tau. Alot of others would be using up to many formstions while the rest of the dark eldar set up to destroy. They have a pretty large denial area.

This is just my opinion on them no1 else might think so.


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 Post subject: Re: Dark Eldar Army List 2017
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:11 am 
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Comparing the current legal stats for the VoP and the Tormentor, the Tormentor was never worth the cost of 2 VoP. It has just been brought in line with their new stats.

Old VoP
Move 30cm, Skimmer 4+ save, DC 3 2 regenerating Shadowfields, 5+ CC, 4+ FF
2 x range 45cm MW3+ TK(1), 2 range 45cm AP5+, and a range 30cm 2BP Disrupt weapon.

New VoP
move 30cm, Skimmer, 4+ save, DC 3, 2 x non regenerating shadowfields, CC 6+, FF 4+
1 x double shot range 45cm MW3+ (TK 1) FxF, 2 x 45cm AP 5+ FxF, and the Range 30cm 2BP Disrupt weapon.

Old Tormentor
move 35cm jump, 5+RA save, 4 DC, 3 regenerating shadowfields, Fearless, Walker
2 x single shot range 35cn MW 3+ TK, 3 x 45cm AP 4+/ AT 6+, CC EA +3 TK, Small arms EA +2 FF CC - 3+, FF 4+

New Tormentor
move 35cm jump, 5+RA save, 4DC 6 x non regenerating shadowfields, Fearless, Walker
2 double (=4 shots) range 45cm MW 3+ (TK1), 3 x 45cm AP4+/AT6+, CC - 3+ with EA +3 TK(1), 2 x 30cm AA 5+, FF - 4+ with EA +2

Main differences, the shields have been doubled on the Tormentor to account for loss of regeneration. It gets 2 more 45cm MW3+ TK weapons because taking 2 x VOP would give you this for the same cost, and it has a 2 shot AA5+ 30cm mount added.

As for the VoP, many of its weapons have fixed arcs now, You can not add them to Flotillas, or take them in Formations of 2. Their CC has been reduced to a 6+. Their shields no longer regenerate. VoP have lost a fair bit for no points reduction.

All in all the differences balance the army out. You should not see more than 1 Tormentor in an army unless your opponent has a very low activation count or has min/maxed the rest of the army which means it will die/break easily and not be able to rally as well.

I have been playing DE for well over a year (quite a while before I went to Heavy Bolter last year). They were my first army in the new EA system having previously only played the second edition space marine game on the square bases. As such I have a decent amount of experience play the army. I think it is still easily beaten, by many armies. I gave examples of the Orks (specially the Feral Orks), Tau, Eldar, and Tyranids. Now I think of it, Necrons are also capable of defeating them quite well.

They are THE Glass Hammer. Hit hard, run away, hide, hug cover, assault, and are just as likely to lose the Engagement as to win it. Easily killed off standard units, more expensive, but killable WE that have less range than a lot of the other armies WE have. They have a noticeable lack of AA compared to most (except feral orks , and perhaps a few other Xenos armies) armies.

A 30cm 2 x AA 5+ is not as good as say Hydra batteries which for 150 points gives you 6 x 45cm AA 5+. They dies easier, but you can spam them, or easily attach hydras to tank and artillery companies for protection. The Titan AA is similar to the Eldar and even the Imperial ones.

Just remember those -1 to hit shadowfields just need to be hit by an AT, MW or TK weapon and they are gone - no save, just gone for good. Imperial Titans get can their shields back, Tyranid WE can regenerate their lost DC, Eldar titans get a 3+ save even in close combat against TK weapons, and only a 1 in 6 lucky crit roll removes this. Orks get more shields to account for their crummy shields. I think it all balances out.

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 Post subject: Re: Dark Eldar Army List 2017
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:57 am 
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I'll probably be sticking with the EUK Dark Eldar list or the original changes proposed by JimXII rather than using Deb Eldar.

I find both are fine with only a few minor tweaks but that said I have been heavily involved in the UK/Euro meta which is quite assault oriented and have been playing the NetEA list since being involved in developing it with Mosc and Xisor (10 years ago?!)... might be giving me skewed experience with it!


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 Post subject: Re: Dark Eldar Army List 2017
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:55 pm 
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Deb Eldar - What? We are discussing JimXII's new 1.1 version of the 2017 Dark Eldar test list. Norto was saying that the 2 x AA 5+ mount and the 6 shadowfields, make the Tormentor impossible to deal with.

I believe it should be referred to as JimXII Dark Eldar.

The list is in experiment/development to balance it out. Venoms were added, and Jim tried to tweak a few things like removing the regen ability of the shadowfields. He added an AA mount on the Tormentor, and modified a few units. Removed some upgrades, and tried to make units that tended to gather dust like Mandrakes, a bit more usefulness. His best change is to give partisans the +1 to initiative to activate if they attempt an engage action.

RugII I may be helping test the new list out but I am certainly not the list designer or developer.

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