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Chaos v Squats 4K Net Epic Evolution Playtest

 Post subject: Re: Chaos v Squats 4K Net Epic Evolution Playtest
PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 7:05 pm 
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Continued...


Attachments:
File comment: The Iron Eagle destroys the last of the Rhinos and secures Squat control of the Wind Turbine objective.
2013-09-28 19.46.15.jpg
2013-09-28 19.46.15.jpg [ 1.08 MiB | Viewed 1681 times ]
File comment: Equals in close combat, the Khorne Berserkers go toe to toe against the Hearthguard.
2013-09-28 19.51.26.jpg
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File comment: Strength in numbers sees the Berserkers triumph over the Hearthguard.
2013-09-28 19.51.38.jpg
2013-09-28 19.51.38.jpg [ 992.06 KiB | Viewed 1681 times ]
File comment: The Bloodthirster seeks to quench his thirst against the Iron Eagles...
2013-09-28 19.52.44.jpg
2013-09-28 19.52.44.jpg [ 1.14 MiB | Viewed 1681 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Chaos v Squats 4K Net Epic Evolution Playtest
PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 7:10 pm 
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Continued...

It was at this point that a misunderstanding with the Ironbreaker Company composition came to light. I was puzzled as to why the company wasn't broken when everything other than the Warlord has been killed or destroyed. It was because there should have been another squad of Berserkers. I decided to play on and finish the game. Another squad of Berserkers probably wouldn't have helped the Squat cause much in any event, and in fact probably would have made the company easier to break had they been on the battlefield...


Attachments:
File comment: The Bloodthirster tears apart one Gyrocopter with ease...
2013-09-28 19.52.53.jpg
2013-09-28 19.52.53.jpg [ 1.08 MiB | Viewed 1681 times ]
File comment: ...and the other using his secondary attack! This also ensures that Chaos take control of this objective!
2013-09-28 19.52.59.jpg
2013-09-28 19.52.59.jpg [ 1.09 MiB | Viewed 1681 times ]

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Last edited by The Bissler on Sun Sep 29, 2013 7:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Chaos v Squats 4K Net Epic Evolution Playtest
PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 7:25 pm 
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Turn 2 Casualties and break points.

Broken Chaos Units:

World Eaters Century 6VPs
Juggernaughts 2 VPs
Cannon of Khorne: 2VPs
2 Rhino Squadrons: 2VPs
3 Daemon Engine Squadrons: 9VPs
Bloodletters: 2VPs

Total VPs to Squats: 23VPs

Broken Squat Units:

Iron Eagle Gyrocopter Wing: 7VPs
Iron Breaker Leviathan: 4VPs
Collosus: 5VPs

Total VPs to Chaos: 16VPs


Attachments:
File comment: Chaos Casualites
2013-09-28 15.22.02.jpg
2013-09-28 15.22.02.jpg [ 1.36 MiB | Viewed 1678 times ]
File comment: Squat Casualties
2013-09-28 15.21.45.jpg
2013-09-28 15.21.45.jpg [ 1.09 MiB | Viewed 1678 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Chaos v Squats 4K Net Epic Evolution Playtest
PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 7:31 pm 
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Objectives:

Note: Red signifies objective under Khorne control, yellow under Squat Control, green means the objective hasn't been captured yet.

Chaos: 4 objectives captured = 20VPs
Squats: 4 objectives captured = 20VPs

Total VPs for Turn Two:

Chaos: 36VPs
Squats 43VPs

End of Turn Two.


Another break calls - will be back to finish this later! :)

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 Post subject: Re: Chaos v Squats 4K Net Epic Evolution Playtest
PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 9:25 pm 
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Turn 3:

You may have noticed from the end of Turn 2 that there has been so much carnage that there wasn't much left on the board! For that reason Turn 3 went a lot faster.

Squats won initiative and acted first...


Attachments:
File comment: The Thunderers open fire, five attacks being directed at the Cauldron of Blood and the other ten at the Lord of Battles...
2013-09-29 00.02.03.jpg
2013-09-29 00.02.03.jpg [ 1.01 MiB | Viewed 1666 times ]
File comment: ...and they destroy the last Cauldron of Blood. The Lord of Battles soaks up an incredible amount of firepower, but one shot does force him to call upon the powers of Chaos to negate a kill (by playing a Chaos card). Could that one card prove to be important?
2013-09-29 00.02.57.jpg
2013-09-29 00.02.57.jpg [ 1.01 MiB | Viewed 1666 times ]
File comment: The Lord of Battles charges forward and with the Doomfist tears the building down, killing the Squat Warlord instantly. This wasn't the kind of tomb he had wanted, but it was honourable to die in battle against a great foe.

This is a big moment for Chaos as it means that the Ironbreaker Company has been broken!

Once again the Collosus retaliates, firing everything - including a massive 16 point defence - at the Lord of Battles. Chaos cards are thrown down to negate several kills, but eventually these are exhausted. The Collosus only has the Thunderer left to fire...

2013-09-29 00.07.06.jpg
2013-09-29 00.07.06.jpg [ 942.67 KiB | Viewed 1666 times ]
File comment: ...And it blows the Lord of Battles head clean off!!! DIE DIE DIE!!!!!

This also means that Chaos have not taken the objective...

2013-09-29 00.17.51.jpg
2013-09-29 00.17.51.jpg [ 1 MiB | Viewed 1666 times ]

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Last edited by The Bissler on Sun Sep 29, 2013 10:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Chaos v Squats 4K Net Epic Evolution Playtest
PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 9:33 pm 
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Continued...


Attachments:
File comment: There is jubilation on the Collosus' deck as they watch the Lord of Battles burn.
2013-09-29 00.18.04.jpg
2013-09-29 00.18.04.jpg [ 934 KiB | Viewed 1665 times ]
File comment: The Collosus' recon gyrocopter starts to move, but comes under attack from the Blood Reaper who snap fires at him...
2013-09-29 00.19.00.jpg
2013-09-29 00.19.00.jpg [ 1021.84 KiB | Viewed 1665 times ]
File comment: ...and shoots the skimmer out of the sky!
2013-09-29 00.20.39.jpg
2013-09-29 00.20.39.jpg [ 1.02 MiB | Viewed 1665 times ]
File comment: Scotty manages to get the Plasma Drive operating at full capacity.
It's all or nothing now, victory or death - no plasma is allocated for repairs!
The Titan will advance, first fire, fire basic weapons, fire three basic plasma charges and one plasma overcharge!

2013-09-29 00.23.34.jpg
2013-09-29 00.23.34.jpg [ 687.63 KiB | Viewed 1665 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Chaos v Squats 4K Net Epic Evolution Playtest
PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 9:46 pm 
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Continued...


Attachments:
File comment: The Titan moves on to the hill where he can fire upon both the Collosus and his recon 'copter. There is a very real danger that the 'copter could steal an objective at this late stage.
The weapons power up...

2013-09-29 00.24.09.jpg
2013-09-29 00.24.09.jpg [ 1.06 MiB | Viewed 1661 times ]
File comment: ... and the Gatling Cannon picks off the last gyrocopter! Meanwhile, the Turbo Laser Destructors strip away the Void Shields, leaving only the Plasma Destructor shots to destroy the Collosus.
The bridge is hit twice, the first roll a 4 causing heavy damage to the bridge. The Squats receive no armour save for the second hit to the bridge as this is hit with the Plasma Destructor on overcharge, the Titan's last shot of the game. Damage is rolled.... 4 again! The Collosus survives!

There is some consolation for the Titan as it retakes the Wind Turbine objective.

2013-09-29 00.30.37.jpg
2013-09-29 00.30.37.jpg [ 1.03 MiB | Viewed 1661 times ]
File comment: ...and the Bloodthirster is slain!!! What an ignominious end, dying at the hands of a bolter! (The Bloodthirster was hit 3 times and only had to roll 2+. Two 1's were rolled!)
2013-09-29 00.34.57.jpg
2013-09-29 00.34.57.jpg [ 1.11 MiB | Viewed 1661 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Chaos v Squats 4K Net Epic Evolution Playtest
PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 9:57 pm 
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Continued...


Attachments:
File comment: Berserkers attack the Land Train!

Before the close assault happens, there are a few units that move and fire, including the Goliaths, but absolutely nothing suffers any damage.

2013-09-29 00.40.17.jpg
2013-09-29 00.40.17.jpg [ 1.05 MiB | Viewed 1660 times ]
File comment: There is a mix of results and it all comes down to the final battle between the last berserker and the Land Train Engine. At stake is control of an objective and breaking the Land Train! The opponents are evenly matched, both with +6 CAF, it literally is a coin toss as to who will prevail!
The Land Train rolls 6... and the Berserkers 5! The Land Train remains unbroken and holds the objective!!!

2013-09-29 00.40.39.jpg
2013-09-29 00.40.39.jpg [ 1.13 MiB | Viewed 1660 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Chaos v Squats 4K Net Epic Evolution Playtest
PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 10:00 pm 
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Turn 3 Casualties and break points.

Broken Chaos Units:

World Eaters Century 6VPs
Juggernaughts 2 VPs
Cannon of Khorne: 2VPs
2 Rhino Squadrons: 2VPs
3 Daemon Engine Squadrons: 9VPs
Bloodletters: 2VPs
Bloodthirster: 3VPs

Total VPs to Squats: 26VPs

Broken Squat Units:

Iron Eagle Gyrocopter Wing: 7VPs
Ironbreaker Leviathan: 4VPs
Collosus: 5VPs
Ironbreaker Company: 8VPs

Total VPs to Chaos: 24VPs


Attachments:
File comment: Chaos Casualties
2013-09-29 00.44.08.jpg
2013-09-29 00.44.08.jpg [ 1.33 MiB | Viewed 1659 times ]
File comment: Squat Casualties
2013-09-29 00.43.54.jpg
2013-09-29 00.43.54.jpg [ 1.25 MiB | Viewed 1659 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Chaos v Squats 4K Net Epic Evolution Playtest
PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 10:14 pm 
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Objectives:

Note: Red signifies objective under Khorne control, yellow under Squat Control, green means the objective hasn't been captured yet.

Chaos: 4 objectives captured = 20VPs
Squats: 4 objectives captured = 20VPs

Total VPs for Turn Three:
Chaos: 44VPs
Squats 46VPs

With 45 VPs required for victory, Squats win by the narrowest of margins!



Had the Cauldron of Blood survived it may have been able to destroy the Thunderers detachment...
Or had one of the two bridge damage rolls on the Collosus been 5+ and not two rolls of 4...
The game would have been a draw!

And had that combat between the Berserker and the Land Train Engine gone the other way... Chaos would have won the battle!

Fate is a fickle mistress my friends!

Well done to the victorious Squats!


Attachments:
File comment: Left Flank
2013-09-29 00.42.10.jpg
2013-09-29 00.42.10.jpg [ 1021.21 KiB | Viewed 1652 times ]
File comment: Right Flank
2013-09-29 00.42.32.jpg
2013-09-29 00.42.32.jpg [ 996.59 KiB | Viewed 1652 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Chaos v Squats 4K Net Epic Evolution Playtest
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 2:32 am 
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Hi!

Sweet!

It seems the system yields pretty close games. Mine ended in a tie, although bringing 3 phoenix bombers for the price of one probably swayed the results too much the way of the eldar.

I like the little cheat sheets you made for tracking plasma and such. Gives me a few ideas for something to include in the ruleset.

Looking forward to your post game analysis.

Primarch

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 Post subject: Re: Chaos v Squats 4K Net Epic Evolution Playtest
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:07 pm 
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Post-match analysis:

Affect of new rules:

Primarch's suggestion that armies are not placed in the deployment zones was an excellent one. Instead, units are deployed one by one which makes for a very interesting game of cat and mouse and makes for a great deal of uncertainty in Turn One - I have always been able to see my opponent's entire army set out and been able to formulate my strategy before orders have finished being placed. It also means you have the flexibility to place orders as you reveal your units one by one, which also was fun and unpredictable. This is a rule which will definitely be staying for future battles!

Since the first playtest, as well as First Fire getting a +1 on rolls to hit, being on First Fire - once the order has been revealed - gives enemy units a +1 to hit you! This made the game tactically interesting as careful consideration had to be given to firing FF units as doing so make them a more lucrative target.

For example, take the start of Turn 2: You'll see that Chaos opted not to fire their Titan first, and instead activated the Tower of Skulls. Taking the fact that the ToS would have fired in the advance fire segment out of the matter, with the standard rules there is no doubt in my mind that the Titan would always have been fired first. But with the maximum 6 void shields in place, the Chaos player was reasonably confident that the Collosus wouldn't be able to destroy his Titan outright - but would have had a better chance of doing so had he been on First Fire. Once the Collosus had completed firing, the Titan's shields were completely stripped away so was left with little option but to fire immediately. Instead of targeting the more (VP) lucrative target of the Collosus, the Leviathan was targeted as this was the biggest threat to the Titan's survival as it had not fired this turn. Even then a chance was taken, the Turbo-Laser Destructors and Plasma Destructor were assigned against the Leviathan, while the Gattling Cannon stripped away the rest of the Collosus' shields, allowing the Blood Reapers to finish off the Collosus in the next activation. They also landed more shots on the Collosus because the Squat player had opted to take the First Fire option.

I believe the First Fire Effect - easier to hit enemies and easier to be hit by enemies - improves gameplay. It makes the game even more lethal but gives players a real tactical dilemma which means their decisions are not as clean cut as maybe they once were. The penalty also has the effect of making First Fire less attractive, without this it could be too tempting to throw tactics out of the window, put everything on FF and engage in a shooting match.

Primarch's Titan Plasma rules: Again, like the first playtest these worked very well indeed. The only controversy is that I'll need to look back at those rules, specifically to find out when the Plasma is rolled for and when it must be applied. My suspicion is that it probably should all be done in the Orders Phase. As it was, the Plasma was calculated when the Titan was activated which meant a little more gamesmanship - no repair plasma on turn one for example because with the Titan be last to be activated it would not incur any damage. This probably shouldn't have happened! Good fun though!

It was interesting to get the Plasma Destructor going which went very well. I would like to see a little bit of penetrating damage for the overload, but with a -6 TSM that probably would be a step too far... Next time I'll be sure to have a Volcano Cannon as well to deliver that killer blow...

Effect on Chaos: The new system had a great effect on Chaos forces and fixed many of the problems that I've been complaining about here on the forum. Being able to activate those Daemon Engines in the same "phase" as the enemy will be activating his First Fire units makes a world of difference. Before anyone suggests that maybe this makes Chaos overpowered, it is worth considering this; because they are on Advance orders, any unit on either First Fire or Advance orders can Snap Fire them before they get a shot off! It did improve them, but not without giving the enemy a fair crack at the whip to stop them before they did damage. In general though, I felt a much better balance with my Chaos force than I maybe have before - but probably taking a Titan to provide some good firepower helped a lot there on that score also.

Effect on Squats: I have often found the Squats overpowered in the past, mostly because their battlefortresses were incredibly difficult to destroy and their break points being so high. They actually felt slightly less powerful under this system but not dramatically so. The blunder with the Land Train didn't help, that should have been on the left flank with the Collosus. I'm not so sure the Warlord Titan would have survived both of those coming at him hammer and tongs! They still won, so it isn't like they have been massively downgraded!

Effect on Gameplay: My feelings were much the same as with the first playtest - that play flowed much more smoothly than under the previous system, that it was more lethal and that it always seemed like something was happening... but then I would say that, wouldn't I? I think it's best to let others decide for themselves!


If anyone has any questions about the new rules, the battle, or any aspects of the report, I'd be happy to answer them, please field as many as you like! Comments and criticisms are also welcomed!

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 Post subject: Re: Chaos v Squats 4K Net Epic Evolution Playtest
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:42 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Chaos v Squats 4K Net Epic Evolution Playtest
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:52 pm 
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Cheers Jimmy! I knew you'd eventually get tired of those Heresy stamps! ;)

And to think playing Net Epic Evolution could put an end to the overpopulation of our planet and bring world peace... Humbling indeed! ;D

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 Post subject: Re: Chaos v Squats 4K Net Epic Evolution Playtest
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 11:51 pm 
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Hi!

Quote:
Post-match analysis:

Affect of new rules:

Primarch's suggestion that armies are not placed in the deployment zones was an excellent one. Instead, units are deployed one by one which makes for a very interesting game of cat and mouse and makes for a great deal of uncertainty in Turn One - I have always been able to see my opponent's entire army set out and been able to formulate my strategy before orders have finished being placed. It also means you have the flexibility to place orders as you reveal your units one by one, which also was fun and unpredictable. This is a rule which will definitely be staying for future battles!


This is exactly how I played my game and as you mention it is wonderfully fun. I like how you have to guess what the opponent is going to do instead of the "god view" of seeing his whole battle force laid out and knowing what is to come.

It's the REAL fog of war! :)


Quote:
Since the first playtest, as well as First Fire getting a +1 on rolls to hit, being on First Fire - once the order has been revealed - gives enemy units a +1 to hit you! This made the game tactically interesting as careful consideration had to be given to firing FF units as doing so make them a more lucrative target.


Indeed. It needs a drawback and being easier to hit is a big one. I forgot to do this in my test, but it will be good to see what you found.

Quote:
For example, take the start of Turn 2: You'll see that Chaos opted not to fire their Titan first, and instead activated the Tower of Skulls. Taking the fact that the ToS would have fired in the advance fire segment out of the matter, with the standard rules there is no doubt in my mind that the Titan would always have been fired first. But with the maximum 6 void shields in place, the Chaos player was reasonably confident that the Collosus wouldn't be able to destroy his Titan outright - but would have had a better chance of doing so had he been on First Fire. Once the Collosus had completed firing, the Titan's shields were completely stripped away so was left with little option but to fire immediately. Instead of targeting the more (VP) lucrative target of the Collosus, the Leviathan was targeted as this was the biggest threat to the Titan's survival as it had not fired this turn. Even then a chance was taken, the Turbo-Laser Destructors and Plasma Destructor were assigned against the Leviathan, while the Gattling Cannon stripped away the rest of the Collosus' shields, allowing the Blood Reapers to finish off the Collosus in the next activation. They also landed more shots on the Collosus because the Squat player had opted to take the First Fire option.


Excellent!

I never liked how it was always a race to fire your first fire units before the opponent did. There was no sense (or penalty) to do otherwise.

With this rule, you have to choose. Will I wait to fire? Will I survive to fire back? Should I fire now, but if I fail to destroy the target it will fire at me with a bonus!!

I really love how this works! ;D

Quote:
I believe the First Fire Effect - easier to hit enemies and easier to be hit by enemies - improves gameplay. It makes the game even more lethal but gives players a real tactical dilemma which means their decisions are not as clean cut as maybe they once were. The penalty also has the effect of making First Fire less attractive, without this it could be too tempting to throw tactics out of the window, put everything on FF and engage in a shooting match.


Totally agree. There is choice, risk and rewards in the decision.

It's what a rule should be!

Quote:
Primarch's Titan Plasma rules: Again, like the first playtest these worked very well indeed. The only controversy is that I'll need to look back at those rules, specifically to find out when the Plasma is rolled for and when it must be applied. My suspicion is that it probably should all be done in the Orders Phase. As it was, the Plasma was calculated when the Titan was activated which meant a little more gamesmanship - no repair plasma on turn one for example because with the Titan be last to be activated it would not incur any damage. This probably shouldn't have happened! Good fun though!


I played it as being rolled and assigned in the orders phase. Otherwise its too easy for the titan to have it done as it is activated.

So definitely do it at the turns start in the order phase and assign your priorities THEN. Anything else is too easy on the titan player.

Quote:
It was interesting to get the Plasma Destructor going which went very well. I would like to see a little bit of penetrating damage for the overload, but with a -6 TSM that probably would be a step too far... Next time I'll be sure to have a Volcano Cannon as well to deliver that killer blow...


This was done on purpose. The old paradigm of weapon usage and targeting is dead with these rules. We must think differently now. Weapons work more like their old AT counterparts.

A titan needs weapons for stripping shields now. Also it needs weapons to reliably damage parts of the enemy titan that either hinder its defense or make it easier to hit.

It takes getting use to. We are so accustomed of "going for the jugular" that now we must first incapacitate then kill the titian. Titans are tough dudes under these rules. There are no short cuts.

Those plasma weapons are not the "killing strike". They are weapons to reliably damage locations. Use them at such. You don't aim it at the head, you aim at the shield generators, leg, weapons, etc. You aim to make it less dangerous to you. Once it is incapacitated use a weapon with penetration for the kill stroke.

These rules also make close combat weapons very attractive. Use your ranged weapons to damage, then rush in and strike!!

In fact I'm thinking of a warlord with a plasma destructor and power fist that could do so nasty stuff....

Also, who said the killing blow has to come from a titan?

In my game one phantom was horribly damaged by the warlord, but could not kill it. A hunter seeker missile from a nearby chimerax is what destroyed it!

Remember its a game of combined activations AND combined arms!!

Quote:
Effect on Chaos: The new system had a great effect on Chaos forces and fixed many of the problems that I've been complaining about here on the forum. Being able to activate those Daemon Engines in the same "phase" as the enemy will be activating his First Fire units makes a world of difference. Before anyone suggests that maybe this makes Chaos overpowered, it is worth considering this; because they are on Advance orders, any unit on either First Fire or Advance orders can Snap Fire them before they get a shot off! It did improve them, but not without giving the enemy a fair crack at the whip to stop them before they did damage. In general though, I felt a much better balance with my Chaos force than I maybe have before - but probably taking a Titan to provide some good firepower helped a lot there on that score also.


I foresee a lot of problems with standard net epic would be solved with combined activations.... ;)

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Effect on Squats: I have often found the Squats overpowered in the past, mostly because their battlefortresses were incredibly difficult to destroy and their break points being so high. They actually felt slightly less powerful under this system but not dramatically so. The blunder with the Land Train didn't help, that should have been on the left flank with the Collosus. I'm not so sure the Warlord Titan would have survived both of those coming at him hammer and tongs! They still won, so it isn't like they have been massively downgraded!


Titan alternate rule make praetorians far less intimidating. I believe it makes titans worth the points and the true kings of the battlefield. I am glad it made them (praetorians) less powerful. :)

In my game the warlord survived being flanked by two phantoms and only was destroyed because I rolled a 12 on the reactor repair roll for that damage level.

Barring that extreme unlucky roll it would have survived.

Titans are seriously scary right now and I like that!

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Effect on Gameplay: My feelings were much the same as with the first playtest - that play flowed much more smoothly than under the previous system, that it was more lethal and that it always seemed like something was happening... but then I would say that, wouldn't I? I think it's best to let others decide for themselves!


Well, let me put it this way...

PRIMARCH APPROVES!!!

Primarch

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