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Skitarii v2.05 vs Red Corsairs 3.5 approved

 Post subject: Skitarii v2.05 vs Red Corsairs 3.5 approved
PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2018 11:36 pm 
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Skitarri v0.93 (ie: the version 2.05) vs Red Corsairs 3.5 Approved

Hounds Squadron [300] 8 CSM bikes units, Sorceror Lord
Renegade Warband [415] 4 CSM units, 4 Thousand Son units, Chaos Warlord, 4 Chaos Rhino BTS
Renegade Warband [375] Swap the chaos Lord and his unit for Daemon Prince, 4 CSM units, 4 Khorne berserker units
Armoured Company [350] 3 Chaos Predator, Chaos Hunter, 2 Chaos Land Raider
Chaos Thunderhawk [200] 1 Thunderhawk
Chosen [205] 6 Chaos Chosen units, 3 Chaos Rhino
Blood Slaughterer pack [225] 5 Blood Slaughterers
Blood Slaughterer pack [225] 5 Blood Slaughterers
Silver Tower circle [250] 4 Silver towers
Two Hell Talon Fighter Bombers [225]
Two Hell Talon Fighter Bombers [225]

Sagitarii Demi [450] 5 Sagitarii units, 5 Rapiers. Ordinatus Minorus with Turbo Laser Destructor
Sagitarii Demi [425] 5 Sagitarii units, 5 Gun Servitors. Ordinatus Minorus with Turbo Laser Destructor
Skitarii Demi [400] 8 Hypaspist units, 2 Secutor units. Magos. 1 Hydra
4 Crusader Robots [150]
4 Crusader Robots [150]
4 Crusader Robots [150]
2 Avenger Strike fighters [225]
Ordinatus Majoris – Mars [500] BTS
Warhound Scout Titan [275] Vulkan, Plasma Blastgun
Warhound Scout Titan [275] Vulkan, Inferno Gun

Firstly, I should not have used an old unchecked list – turns out the Minorus are rocking scout titan weapons (the TLD), where they should have Laser Blasters. Which would cut the hydra from the Magos’ unit, have very little impact on the game; and giving me better shots, which would have helped.

Deployment
https://imgur.com/ItqFoBK

DP and his lads in the thunderbus
Sagitarii units are black with the red Minorus. Skitarii is red, sitting dangerously close to the Majoris (black) on the blitz. One unit of Crusaders garrison on the Left objective.
Chaos BTS sitting on his blitz, chosen garrison on the left objective.

End of turn 1
https://imgur.com/G95qxpt

CSM bikes did not like the Warhound with Inferno, but hung on to the right objective.
TLD minorus did horrible things to one unit of blood slaughterers, one left broken and feld behind far right building. Imagine if I’d used the right gun!
On the left, you can see the DP and a few berzerkers (broken) that pile to their left is the Sagitarii dead, Minorus is broken on the extreme left of table (out of shot). Damn you thunderbus!


Sadly, we forgot to take a pic at the end of turn two because it was all happening!
Blood slaughterer pack behind the hill (above) got into the Minorus in the centre and carved up. Casualties were actually not too bad until the crit went off, leaving two Blood Slaughterers and 3 Rapiers wondering wtf happened.
Plasma Warhound made a dash for the left objective and wiped out the chosen holding it into the bargain.
Inferno Warhound took the right (Chaos) objective and removed the Silver towers.
Helltalons bombed the Plasma warhound off the objective, but it fled to the blitz. Rallied EoT.
Start of turn 3, the rallied DP ate the Majoris (BTS), subsequent crit (COME ON!) took out the robots and Skitarii “defending” it. Only the Magos survived


End of turn 3
https://imgur.com/IO7PxmJ

Yes, that is that damn single Blood Slaughterer skulking near the template in range of a turn 4 blitz run. Magos has failed to rally, so there’s no-one to stop him.
Broken CSM bikes and Broken Crusaders hide near the right (Skitarii) objective. Robots rally, and bikes don’t, decide to do a runner.

End of Game.
https://imgur.com/JwdQywg

Planes have successfully shot units off both blitz.
Skitarii have T&H with Left and Right objectives
Corsairs BTS does the stretch to hold left objective and blitz. Warhound kills not enough of them.
Chaos have BTS, Blitz and T&H. Win 3-1

This was tested to see the effect of the v2.1 changes on a 2.05 list. Next game will be this list taking advantage of those changes. Discussion on the night was mainly over the very nasty ordinatus crit WHY?? :), and how the Majoris is a big soft target. Really think that’s fixed in 2.1 with the drop in points and addition of fearless.

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 Post subject: Re: Skitarii v2.05 vs Red Corsairs 3.5 approved
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:05 am 
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couldn't work out how to get the pics to embed (they are big files..), but links seem to work now.

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 Post subject: Re: Skitarii v2.05 vs Red Corsairs 3.5 approved
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:54 am 
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Thanks for the report Fruitbat, it was much appreciated....Love the top down shots :D

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 Post subject: Re: Skitarii v2.05 vs Red Corsairs 3.5 approved
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 4:25 am 
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Thanks for the report! Somewhat ironic, but in all my skitarii games, I've never had the crit happen on the ordinatus. :) I believe the rationale for the crit is that you basically have a titan reactor strapped to a tractor protected by void shields. If that does go up, there's not a lot to shield units from it. I don't recall any debate over the crit coming up before, but we can take a look at it. Maybe reduce the radius if it's too problematic.

For your next game, will you be using the platest changes to v2.1 or just straight 2.1?

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 Post subject: Re: Skitarii v2.05 vs Red Corsairs 3.5 approved
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 4:56 am 
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I think the crit is quite thematic, and I'm a "this is cool" player first, so I like it.
I just don't like rolling so many damn 5s for my dudes, and none for his :nooo
Area is pretty huge. It was observed that it's worse than a titan explosion - three times the radius of any of them. Might be worth thinking about cutting it to 10cm. I felt I got a disproportionate effect for the crit in this game as I'd attached the minorus, and he caught the majoris intermingled so the distance was similar. However, if you're trying to encourage attaching minorus to the infantry..


I was planning to use straight 2.1 for the next test, I guess we can roll in the proposed changes for the one after it

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 Post subject: Re: Skitarii v2.05 vs Red Corsairs 3.5 approved
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 4:59 am 
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Yeah, I'd definitely look at the proposed changes. They are mostly tweaks but I think they are pretty solid and almost certain to roll into the list.

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 Post subject: Re: Skitarii v2.05 vs Red Corsairs 3.5 approved
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:15 am 
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Cool.
So, what I see different from 2.1 is Majoris to 300 (from 350) and an extra lascannon each for the planes - everything else seems to be in there already. Correct?

Oh - hypaspists get better guns? Is it just increased range to 45, or different values?

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 Post subject: Re: Skitarii v2.05 vs Red Corsairs 3.5 approved
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:33 am 
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Heya fruitbat,

How did the majoris preform on the offensive? Did it shoot much?

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 Post subject: Re: Skitarii v2.05 vs Red Corsairs 3.5 approved
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:27 am 
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Fire lanes were really tight, so a lot if the work it did was making the Corsairs cone at me sideways rather than steaught on.
Put the fear into the silver towers with a cheeky corner shot, and the disrupt/many extra blasties is gold. Broke the tanks, Chaos were very good at saving throws though. Much discussion on how it would run on a more open table.. expecting say 50/50 good v bad fire lanes in a tournament, I can see value purely in area denial. But it'll auto-break a warhound, and that's very useful.

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 Post subject: Re: Skitarii v2.05 vs Red Corsairs 3.5 approved
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 2:02 pm 
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Thanks for the report.

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 Post subject: Re: Skitarii v2.05 vs Red Corsairs 3.5 approved
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 2:46 pm 
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Quote:
So, what I see different from 2.1 is Majoris to 300 (from 350) and an extra lascannon each for the planes - everything else seems to be in there already. Correct?

Oh - hypaspists get better guns? Is it just increased range to 45, or different values?


Only the stuff on the first page of the playest changes thread is what we're looking at. No stat changes on hypaspists or additional change to majoris cost. It's just the extra lascannon, price tweaks for the support missile, quake cannons, CLP, and stat changes for the Ordinatus Golgotha hellfire missiles.

viewtopic.php?p=489806#p489806

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 Post subject: Re: Skitarii v2.05 vs Red Corsairs 3.5 approved
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 7:15 pm 
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fruitbat wrote:
Skitarri

Sagitarii Demi [450] 5 Sagitarii units, 5 Rapiers. Ordinatus Minorus with Turbo Laser Destructor
Sagitarii Demi [425] 5 Sagitarii units, 5 Gun Servitors. Ordinatus Minorus with Turbo Laser Destructor
Skitarii Demi [400] 8 Hypaspist units, 2 Secutor units. Magos. 1 Hydra
4 Crusader Robots [150]
4 Crusader Robots [150]
4 Crusader Robots [150]
2 Avenger Strike fighters [225]
Ordinatus Majoris – Mars [500] BTS
Warhound Scout Titan [275] Vulkan, Plasma Blastgun
Warhound Scout Titan [275] Vulkan, Inferno Gun


On points costs I have your list with:
5 Sagitarii, 5 Rapiers, Minorus (Laser Blaster, say) [250+25+100+50 = 425]
5 Sagitarii, 5 Rapiers, Minorus (Gatling Blaster, say) [250+100+25 = 375]
4 Crusader Robots [125]
2 Avenger Strike Fighters (2 lascannons) [200]
Ordinatus Majoris (Mars) [450]

So you have an extra 200 plus points to spend on the current playtest options.
An encouraging bonus, . . . ? Good Luck.


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 Post subject: Re: Skitarii v2.05 vs Red Corsairs 3.5 approved
PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:41 am 
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I look forward to the rematch Dave

Though I'll be shelving the Red Corsairs for a while again now... no enamored with the approved list., though I love the army.
I'll have to choose another approved list to take against you. Maybe Baran Siege masters, I know you love my tarpit! :P


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 Post subject: Re: Skitarii v2.05 vs Red Corsairs 3.5 approved
PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:33 am 
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Mard wrote:
I look forward to the rematch Dave

Though I'll be shelving the Red Corsairs for a while again now... no enamored with the approved list., though I love the army.


Always open to suggestions to improve it Mard, please feel free to post any you and your group have in the Red Corsairs development thread :) I'm still racking my brains for ways to tweak it too!

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 Post subject: Re: Skitarii v2.05 vs Red Corsairs 3.5 approved
PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 11:04 pm 
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kyussinchains wrote:
Mard wrote:
I look forward to the rematch Dave

Though I'll be shelving the Red Corsairs for a while again now... no enamored with the approved list., though I love the army.


Always open to suggestions to improve it Mard, please feel free to post any you and your group have in the Red Corsairs development thread :) I'm still racking my brains for ways to tweak it too!


It's a pickle I can understand Kyuss :) and I appreciate all the work you've put into the list.

My gripe is on things like Blood slaughterers, and it extends to all things that have a great CC value a zero FF. They are just unreliable against a savvy opponent in any tournament setting, just too easy to measue out threat ranges :P

Sure we can use them as area denial, and to push people into area for fear of the crab claws, but that's about it haha.

I'd love Solver towers to be just a touch more resiliant for their price :P


Ohhh and I'd love a reason to paint up my brass scorpions.... they just seem too flimsy at 5+ reinforce to make them worth it.


But all of these things are tricky I know


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