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Raven Guard vs Black Legion NetEA playtest 3k

 Post subject: Raven Guard vs Black Legion NetEA playtest 3k
PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 8:14 pm 
Purestrain
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now that Jimmy is enjoying his retirement from marine AC, we got a game in. I think we'd been planning to playtest RG at least 8 months ago, but only just got the game in.

Unfortunately i was pressing the wrong keyboard shortcut to print screen, so this is just activations for the game

Super Spooky Night Lords, 2995 POINTS
13TH BLACK CRUSADE BLACK LEGION (2014 Armybook Edition)
(all tzeentch and sorcerers in the rets)
==================================================

RETINUE [425]
8 Chaos Space Marines, (Chaos Undivided), Obliterator, Chaos Warlord (Supreme Commander), Daemonic Pact

RETINUE [340]
8 Chaos Space Marines, (Chaos Undivided), Chaos Lord, 4 Rhino, Daemonic Pact

RETINUE [340]
8 Chaos Space Marines, (Chaos Undivided), Chaos Lord, 4 Rhino, Daemonic Pact

RAPTOR CULT [270]
(Chaos Undivided), Chaos Lord, 6 Raptor, Daemonic Pact

RAPTOR CULT [235]
(Chaos Undivided), Chaos Lord, 5 Raptor, Daemonic Pact

CHAOS TERMINATORS [375]
(Chaos Undivided), Chaos Lord, 4 Chaos Terminator, Daemonic Pact, Obliterator

CHOSEN [170]
4 Chaos Space Marine Scouts, (Chaos Undivided), 2 Rhino, Daemonic Pact

DEATH WHEEL SQUADRON [275]

DEATH WHEEL SQUADRON [275]

HELL BLADES [200]

DAEMON POOL [90]
(Chaos Undivided), 6 Lesser Daemon


Raven Guard
TACTICAL 300 3000
Four Tactical units, Supreme Commander

TACTICAL 250
Four Tactical units, Chaplain

Devestator 300
Chappy

LAND SPEEDER 225
5 Land Speeder, Planetfall

LAND SPEEDER 225
5 Land Speeder, Planetfall

Devestator 300
Chappy

TERMINATOR 400
Four Terminator units, Chappy

THUNDERHAWK GUNSHIP 200

THUNDERHAWK GUNSHIP 200

STRIKE CRUISER 200

STORMTALONS 200

STORMTALONS 200

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 Post subject: Re: Raven Guard vs Black Legion NetEA playtest 3k
PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 8:42 pm 
Purestrain
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Played corners. BL garrisoned BTS ret off a T&H to get them out of deployment zone, then mainly concentrate on deploying in ends of deployment area at the expense of middle/corner (but not super bunched up).

RG started the two tac formations on table.

T1
RG win rolloff
RG> cruiser, barrage landed in the space behind a hill where the blitz is – nothing there but it flips onto chosen, kills 1 inf and 1 rhino
pods arive on inner part of long edge between a wheel and both raptor cults. strip both shields off a deathwheel and BM both raptor formations. Not great, the wheel i neatly prepped and both the raptor are now at BM disadvantage.
RG>devs retain engage deathwheel. wheel takes 1 DC, 2 dev die inc chap. second devs in support do a second DC. devs are +1 on rolloff and win, wheel breaks north.
BL>raptors summon 4 flamers and engage unactivated devs. 3 devs and some demons die, chaplain survives to run away. raptors consolidate up to get in support range of the 2nd devs
RG>speeders self planetfall in in front of the raptors that just activated and engage raptors, speeders win for 1 loss, 4 raptors survive as the demons took most of the hits
RG>second speeders planetfall in to left of the other raptors and break them leaving 2 to flee
BL>deathwheel engages speeders and wipes them out
RG>storm talon ground attack raptors, 3 hits but all save, 1 raptor dies from BM, 3 left
BL>CAP
RG>CAP
BL>storm talons attack speeders, kills but fail to break
RG>thawk shoots brocken deathwheel, nothing
BL> retinue doubles and shoots speaders, fail to hit but breaks them with the BM
RG>thawk shoots deathwheel, takes off another DC, leaving it on 1
BL>chosen marshal, remove all BM (shoot broken devs, no effect wiht ATSKNF)
RG>tac move up to mid table
BL>retinue engage devs using beast infiltrate, wipe them out with support off the 2nd ret
RG>tacticals move to mid table
BL>BTS ret maintains overwatch
all rally except the marine devastators

(T1 note: BL chose not to teleport. RG didn't teleport and i thought nothing of it, as i assumed jimmy had his terminators in the thawk – turns out he forgot to teleport. Only worked this out 3/4 of way into t1. If id realised the terminators weren't in a thawk my BTS ret would have overwatched onto the devs or speeders during the turn, but i was keeping them on OW to ward off air assaults. so we both messed that up)


T2
RG terminators teleport in near the damaged death wheel and BL BTS, bringing 2BM with them as souvenirs from the warp
BL terminator teleport between and to the rear of the two tactical formations mid table (within 15cm of either) with 0BM (wooo!)

BL win rolloff
BL>the heavily damaged deathwheel by the terminators singles back behind them and cross fires them wiht the BTS ret. chaplain and 1 regular terminator die. combined with the 2BM they got teleporting in they break
BL>retain with terminator assaultand wipe out the SC tacticals for loss of 1 terminator
RG>thawk plinks death wheel takes shield off
RG now have very little left to use, we keep playing to end of turn for sake of playtest
BL>SC retinue assaults RG terminators, wiping them out for the loss of 1 demon
RG>
thawk plinks wheel no dmg, breaks it
RG>Tac engage raptors, raptors counter in, raptors wipe out but kill 2 rhinos and a dev
?? not sure what happened here, RG def didnt tripple activate though
RG>speeders retain and engage raptors, speeders wipe out
BL>deathwheel engages tacticals, tacticals wipe out
RG>storms GA raptors
BL>clean retinue engages last, lone, brokne dev and FAILS TO KILL EVEN IN RESOLUTION
BL>retinue single and shoot the lone dev, who of course makes 3 saves
BL>chosen shoot dev who makes all his saves again

Game called end of t2. RG's only surviving ground unit is 1 broken but seemingly immortal devastator.
T3 RG would have had to land thawks to contest and probably ended up broken or dead due to severe out activation.

cant be bothered to fix the colour formatting above. I used the hellblade twice in t2 somehow (probably the missing BL activation where i have 3 RG in a row), which is bad, but would have made little to no difference.

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 Post subject: Re: Raven Guard vs Black Legion NetEA playtest 3k
PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 8:44 pm 
Purestrain
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thoughts on RG post game from JZ:
Quote:
1.
I find the smaller Tac formation sizes really not all that beneficial. In fact I'd call it a hindrance more than a boon. Yes it's cheaper and you could in theory popcorn them a wee bit as cheap formations but to be fair, tacs are already kinda blah in EA and take a buch of cheap tac formations doesnt' actually buy you anything. It's not any less blah by reducing them to 4 stands. Also by being cheaper, the classic BTS upgraded SC tac formation isn't really possible. This forces your BTS,overwhelmingly, to be those termies you really need to have for their punch.

conclusion: I think the ability to put them back up to a full 6 so someone can can reasonably bring a hunter+sc on a tac is good. We're already without ANY armour on the list. The vanguard/sternguard are in no way a boon that make up for say no pred anihilators

2. Strike Crusiers are less utility here than in Codex and other variants.

Conclusion: One of the rare times I actually think the SC is overpriced and under usable for this list (better to self planetfall a bunch of speeders as you can bring them in on whatever turn you want). The Neil, 3 Gladius frigates was far more usable, worthwhile, and frankly fun. Not sure if it needs to come back however. The cruiser pushes the list more binary. Probably just going to be the nature of the beast.

3. In this game, cheaper Storm Eagles would have been a far better choice.

Conclusion: I should think this out better and not suck as bad at this game ;)

4. Terminators are 0-1 doesn't scale.

conclusion: while we need to not go zany with pure termie armies and need to not use them like an extreme codex build (as in why bother having this list), there's better list design that doesn't rely on hard max. 1 termie at 3k is 'better' than at 4k game. Probably should be base on having a number of RG detachments per termie. 3 core allows one termie or something like that. That way te game scales with the points.

5. Get on the bus

Go full drop or go home. Otherwise just play codex.

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 Post subject: Re: Raven Guard vs Black Legion NetEA playtest 3k
PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 8:47 pm 
Purestrain
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My thoughts:

self planetfall is far more interesting than id considered. being able to trop into enemy deployment T1 without having to queue up with everything else in the spaceship drop is very useful when stuff is prepped by deathwind. That said i would not have done the t1 landspeeder engagements jimmy did myself – very risky as it was on the table, but jimmy rolled 6 in both resolutions, so all good!

don't mind the strike cruiser myself. interesting list id def like to try using myself. fragile but aggresive

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 Post subject: Re: Raven Guard vs Black Legion NetEA playtest 3k
PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 8:55 pm 
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Yeah much fun to be had with this list. Think we're on the right track but some small tweaks could be order.

Something else to note here is sneaky RG getting some talons like proper marines ;) please just add them now before Kyuss forces you :p

Incidentally, the point about Tactical is in ground pounding them. I'd hate to lose that option, especially on a BTS in this list. Podding them in, especially 3 or more formations is much better than I used them in retrospect. The quick 2 minutes spent taking it was something akin to "those termies are going straight into harms way and are BTS. Let's not add them to some tacs. Wait...that looks really brittle. Better bring friends" ;D Pods and mass deathwind attacks is the sure fire way to use them.

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 Post subject: Re: Raven Guard vs Black Legion NetEA playtest 3k
PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 10:47 pm 
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This is worked up by us for next time would be more like

DEVASTATOR [250]
Four Devastator units

DEVASTATOR [250]
Four Devastator units

TACTICAL [200]
Four Tactical units

TACTICAL [200]
Four Tactical units

STORM EAGLE [150]
One Storm Eagle

STORM EAGLE [150]
One Storm Eagle

STORM EAGLE [150]
One Storm Eagle

STORM EAGLE [150]
One Storm Eagle

VANGUARD ASSAULT VETERAN [300]
Four Vanguard Assault Veteran units, Chaplain

VANGUARD ASSAULT VETERAN [300]
Four Vanguard Assault Veteran units, Chaplain

VANGUARD ASSAULT VETERAN [300]
Four Vanguard Assault Veteran units, Chaplain

THUNDERBOLT SQUADRON [175]
2 Thunderbolt Fighters

STRIKE CRUISER [200]
One Strike Cruiser

THUNDERHAWK GUNSHIP [200]
One Thunderhawk Gunship

Problem there is triple BTS and crap command and control =/

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 Post subject: Re: Raven Guard vs Black Legion NetEA playtest 3k
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 7:57 am 
Purestrain
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make a vet formation assault marines then use points to make something more expensive to avoid multiple BTS. could ad terminators

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