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Albert Orkstein 3k points against Steel Legion

 Post subject: Albert Orkstein 3k points against Steel Legion
PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 3:11 pm 
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Last week I managed to get a game with the gargants against Steel Legion. I decided to post my thoughts about the game here, although it was a fairly uneven matchup. And sorry, no pictures (also no notes to speak of, so all out of my head and hence maybe slightly inaccurate at some points...)

My list:
Great Gargant [900]
- 2x Twin Soopagun
- 1x Soopagun
- Wyrdboy Tower

Gargant [600]
- 3x Zzapgun

Supa Stompa [375]
- 2x Mega Lobba
- 1x Grot-guided Missiles

Supa Stompa [325]
- Mega Choppa
- Gattling gun
- Transporter

Drop Rok [200]

Loota Warband [395]
- added 2 Dreads + 2 Killa Kanz

Fighta Bommers [150]

Fighta Bommers [150]


Against Steel Legion:

Mech Regimental HQ (incl. some Demolishers)
Warlord Titan
Shadowswords (3)
Infantry on foot
Sentinels
Stormtroopers in Valkyries
Hydras (3)
Manticores (3)
Thunderbolts


Setup:
I put my T&H objectives close together near his Blitz, he put his far apart at opposite table edges.
Foot infantry and Sentinels garrison on overwatch in some forests.

I set up CC Stompa on my right flank behind a forest, other three units in the center in some ruins near a road, which leads directly to the 3 objectives in my opponent's table half.

All my units roll their minimum number of shields :(


Turn 1:

Lobba-Stompa sustains with indirect missiles on Shadowswords, 1 miss, 1 hit doing 1 damage...

Manticores sustain with everything on the GG, also hitting the Gargant. Some shields are lost and a few BM gained.

CC Stompa marches forward

Reg. HQ doubles into ruins near my two T&H objectives. Strip shield of CC Stompa (and maybe also did a DC damage)

GG doubles along road, fires on infantry in the forest (their OW stripped some shields). Little damage due to doubling and cover.

Warlord advances and strips some shields of the GG

Shadowswords sustain on GG, stripping the last shield and causing 6 damage (which starts 4 fires!)

Gargant doubles into ruins and fires on Warlord. Some bad rolls later the Warlord lost a single shield...

Fightabommas are CAP'ed by the Thunderbolts, loosing two. The last one places a BM somewhere (forgot to evade)

Second Fightabomma formation tries to intercept the Thunderbolts, but fails to do damage.

Stormtroopers march down my left flank.

Hydra rushes to my right flank to close with the fightabommas.

End Phase: Everyone rallies, GG suffers 3 more damage due to fires. Fightabommas collect a BM each from the Hydras, but none is killed.



Turn 2:


Shadowswords kill the GG.

CC Stompa doubles into support range, puts a BM on Warlord

Drop Rok ratains and drops bewtween Warlord and Foot Infantry, Lootas diembark. Rok shoots on Hydras, placing a BM.
In that moment I realize my mistake... I cannot assault with the Lootas anymore as I already retained :(

Foot Inf. engages Lootas and Rok in FF with support from the Warlord. 1 Loota and 1 Dread survive, with only 1 or 2 casualties for the guard.

Fightabommas try to snipe the Sup. Commander from the Reg. HQ but fail to do enough damage.

Thunderbolts stand down.

Lobba-Stompa doubles into the open, firing on Reg. HQ (also catching a Sentinel). Kills a few guardsmen and a Sentinel, Sentinels break due to BM and flee towards my right flank.

Reg. HQ fire on CC Stompa, breaking it with 1 DC left. It flees into the woods.

Gargant doubles towards the Shadowswords, killing one Shadowsword and damaging a second.

Warlord obliterates Lobba-Stompa.

Manticores wipe out the remaining Lootas with Heavy Bolter fire.

Stormtroopers move further down my left flank.

Single Fightabomma actually activates on a 5 and kills a single Sentinel due to coming under fire.

End Phase: Shadowswords fail to remove BM, so one remains suppressed :) Sentinels and CC-Stompa rally.



Turn 3:

Currently guard has TSNP, BTS, and DTF. Which means someone tough needs to contest!

Gargant tries to engage the Foot Inf. guarding the T&H objective near the forest, and fails due to BMs. One move brings it into the opponent's table half and it contests the objective!

Shadowswords sustain on the Gargant, but one is suppressed and the Gargant survives.

CC-Stompa engages Foot Inf. in the forest. Only one stand is in range (and is killed), so no support fire from the Gargant. The assault is a draw and we fight another round. After all moves again a single stand, a Commissar this time, is in range and is killed. Due to a lucky roll-off and the dead Commissar, the Supa Stompa wins and hacks down a handful of guardsmen. The rest fall back.

Reg. HQ advance and fire at the CC Stompa, destroying it.

Warlord manages to walk around the forest and draw LOF towards the Gargant, and it goes down in a hail of Turbolaser fire. (actually I don't remember whether the Gargant died or not).

Single Fightabomma places a BM on the Stormtroopers in the hope they fail to activate.

Fightabommas attack the Sentinels, are CAP'ed by the Thunderbolts, and lose 2. No damage to the Sentinels.

Stormtroopers do a Conga-Dance to see whether they can claim 3 objectives.


End of the game: Depending on whether the Gargant survived, the guard either held BTS, Blitz, T&H, with the Gargant denying DTF & TSNP, or they held all objectives.


My thoughts about the game:

I am not sure the Drop Rok really works so well in this list. Ok, that they all died without achieving anything was simply my fault, I forgot that the Lootas in this case would need to activate independently in order to attack. However, taking a drop formation meant that I only had very few units to deploy at the start of the battle. As a consequence, the guard player could place his best units (mainly Shadowswords and Warlord in our game) with optimal fire lanes towards their targets. Having shorter range (60cm Zzap vs. 90cm Volcano Cannon) this meant I couldn't avoid the attack. Also, it meant I had no units I could spare to guard the objectives in my own table half.
Still, the Rok is a fun unit!

Mega Lobba: I found it quite useful, especially in a pair. I think the larger barrage makes up for the loss of MW. That being said, if the second upgrade was not free I would not have chosen the Lobbas.

Triple-Zzap:
Very powerful combination in this game. I think its not owerpowered though as it is a lot less useful without WE targets to shoot at. Still a solid choice even then due to TK.

Grot Missile:
not so happy about it. Well, in this game I was quite unlucky with my rolls, but it also made me sustain fire (for indirect fire, but also because I didn't want to risk firing a one-shot weapon at 4+). That meant one round of fire of the Lobbas lost, and the supa stompa hanging behind. Maybe 2+ to hit would be better? No change for indirect fire, but encourages to fire the missiles on the move. Still 50 pts. plus trading in a gun feels expensive.

Gattling gun: I don't know what to do with it. EA +2 is cool in FF, and if I had ever been in range of more than one stand in an assault the CC Supa Stompa would have done quite some damage. But then you really want the transporter upgrade for the speed, which leaves you with a singe Soopagun or the Choppa (if you don't have the 50pt to upgrade the third gun as well). And you will mostly be doubling or engaging, so the gattling shots at AP5+/AT6+ are basically wasted. Here I would like to see better to hit values.

Wyrdboy Tower:
Thunderbolts stayed out of range, so no comment.

Great Gargant
: With the two twin Soopas being better than the weapons to trade, I didn't really feel encouraged to personalize the GG. That's a bit sad, as the leader should get the most attention. I would really appreciate if the upgrades were reworked, such that a normal "Gargant-class gun" (Soopa, Zzap, Lobba....) can be traded for another normal, and a better "GG-class" (Twin-Soopa, Lifta-Droppa,...) weapon can be traded for another better weapon.

Objectives:
I found it almost impossible to control the opponent's movement on the board, and to defend my half of the table. Having several small Loota mobs in garrison instead of a big drop might help with this though. Anyway, if one wants to play with a drop rok, having access to a small scout screen would really be helpful. Think something like scouting death koptas.

Cheers,
Dr. Pepper


Last edited by Dr. Pepper on Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Albert Orkstein 3k points against Steel Legion
PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 4:46 pm 
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Thanks for the report, it did sound like things didn't go your way... a shame about the mistake with the Rok, would this have made a difference do you think? I guess you could have engaged with the Rok, disembarking and fighting the assault as one action, but you might not have been within range.

Also the Warlord apparently managed to kill both the GG and Lobba-Stompa in turn 2?? Two activations?

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 Post subject: Re: Albert Orkstein 3k points against Steel Legion
PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:46 pm 
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I think I made a mistake there, I am fairly sure the Warlord destroyed the Supa Stompa, so it probably were the Shadowswords who killed the Great Gargant. Sorry for a bit fuzzy memory, edited in the post above.

I didn't want to directly engage with the Rok, as bad scatter could easily have left me out of engage range. Basically I could have retained, if I hadn't first moved the CC Supa Stompa to support the assault.

Not sure I would actually have won that assault... I had to assault the Warlord with all my MW CC attacks, as I had nothing really left that could deal with all the Shields (BP weapons doubling and shooting into cover at AT7+, or 3 Zzaps on 5+ which could also try to shoot the Shadowswords...) And with the Warlord contesting T&H, Blitz too far away, and many fast guard formations, killing the Warlord was the only chance to win.

Even if I would have won the assault, it probably would not have allowed me to win. The Gargants were too slow (and already too much damaged) to provide enough support for the isolated Lootaz. The way I see it: If the drop formation is too weak, it will just die. If it is strong enough, the remaining units are too few and easily outmaneuvered.


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 Post subject: Re: Albert Orkstein 3k points against Steel Legion
PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 1:44 am 
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How much is the rok? Maybe useful only to keep back until the end, making the opponent protect the blitz. But can't see it working well unless it's really cheap, plus the activations make it hard.

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 Post subject: Re: Albert Orkstein 3k points against Steel Legion
PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 9:42 am 
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It's 200 pts for an empty rok, 375 for a rok with the cheapest formation on board, or more for a more durable formation (in this game 200 + 295).


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 Post subject: Re: Albert Orkstein 3k points against Steel Legion
PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:29 pm 
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Cheers for the report Dr Pepper.

Did you opponent have any thoughts on any aspects of the list?

I personally haven't tried a Rok yet, although will do at some point. Whenever I've considered them so far I've always dismissed them as needing too many points for a formation that is immobile once it is on the deck. In an army that struggles for activations, ones that are (essentially) one use only don't suit my playstyle.


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 Post subject: Re: Albert Orkstein 3k points against Steel Legion
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:15 am 
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I've used the Rok half a dozen times to drop in Loota Warbands upgraded with Oddboyz to surprise my opponents with a heavy hit from an unexpected angle.
It is perhaps a tad overcosted?

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 Post subject: Re: Albert Orkstein 3k points against Steel Legion
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:12 pm 
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Reedar wrote:
Did you opponent have any thoughts on any aspects of the list?


I will ask him for more details, but I think he was mostly afraid of the twin Mega-Lobba. But that is to be expected for guard with large blobs of unarmoured infantry ;)

Evil and Chaos wrote:
I've used the Rok half a dozen times to drop in Loota Warbands upgraded with Oddboyz to surprise my opponents with a heavy hit from an unexpected angle.
It is perhaps a tad overcosted?


I think it might be fairly priced for a normal ork list, but it is probably overcosted for the gargant list, if you factor in the low number of activations and the low speed. In a normal list, you can easily support the drop formations with faster formations, and you have enough formations available to protect your own table half.


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