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Epic: Mechanicus Supplment - Ork Development

 Post subject: Re: Epic: Mechanicus Supplment - Ork Development
PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 1:13 pm 
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I have been reading this forums for years, and apparently only posted in this threat... shows how lazy I am, or how much I want a Gargant list ;)

Cheaper Gargant sounds good (although 550 might be too cheap, 600 better?). For the Wyrdboy Tower I would prefer 2 shots over D3 shots - orkz already have quite a lot of randomness, and always first rolling for the number of shots whenever a plane approaches might be unneccessarily tiresome.
I also agree now that a dread/Stompa formation is not needed in this list.

What I think are the main concerns, and which solutions I want to suggest:

1. Weapons. They are too few, and upgrading is not very intuitive.
I would add more guns, mainly the guns from the old 3.05 list plus some AT (e.g. Death arsenal - 90cm - 3*AT 4+) and some fancy shortrange stuff (e.g. flamer: 30 cm BP weapon with IC, or Shock Attack Gun battery: BP weapon with disrupt)
Then, I would classify them as Special Guns and Mega guns as they have different power levels (e.g. Lifta Droppa is better than the Mega Choppa, Twin Soopa Gun is better than Supa Gun etc.) Let the Gargant chose 3 weapons from the weaker Special Guns list, the Great Gargant can also chose 3 weapons, but up to 2 can be chosen from the stronger Mega Guns list.
In addition, allow 0-1 Kustom job: either upgrade a Special Gun to a Mega gun, or get one of the additional benefits that do not replace a weapon (e.g. Wyrdboy tower)

2. Speed. Everything with speed 15 cm is a bit boring.
Fortresses are rarely taken, as they are so squishy. In the Gargant list they might shine. Maybe allow a formation of 1/2/3 Fortresses. To emphasize the Mek-style of the list, give it some special weapons like the custom cannon (45cm MW4+) and/or force it to take an Oddboy upgrade.

I am quite busy this week, but if desired maybe at the weekend I can compile a short draft to make a bit more clear what I mean.


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 Post subject: Re: Epic: Mechanicus Supplment - Ork Development
PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 1:20 pm 
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Dr. Pepper wrote:
For the Wyrdboy Tower I would prefer 2 shots over D3 shots - orkz already have quite a lot of randomness, and always first rolling for the number of shots whenever a plane approaches might be unneccessarily tiresome.


I have a hard time imagening that 1 more die roll in a game made up of dierolling would be tiresome...


On another note. Maybe this has been discussed already, but couldn't the list get a full custom arming like the Imperial lists has? Meaning you get to decide all the weapons on each gargant.

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 Post subject: Re: Epic: Mechanicus Supplment - Ork Development
PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 1:35 pm 
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I've updated the supplement at Reedar's request with the following changes:
Gargant - drop to 600pts
Transporta - move to standard upgrades
Upgrades - change wording to allow 1-2 weapon changes

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=26652&p=506005#p506005

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 Post subject: Re: Epic: Mechanicus Supplment - Ork Development
PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2014 4:02 pm 
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Evil and Chaos wrote:
I've updated the supplement at Reedar's request with the following changes:
Gargant - drop to 600pts
Transporta - move to standard upgrades
Upgrades - change wording to allow 1-2 weapon changes

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=26652&p=506005#p506005


Thanks E&C. I've got a game with Nat later and will be using this list, with the above changes. I'll try and do a report for it.

Cheers
Reedar


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 Post subject: Re: Epic: Mechanicus Supplment - Ork Development
PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2014 11:17 pm 
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Ok, so the current changes mean that my 5k Gargant List would save a total of 550 points.
It also provides alternatives to the current "buy transport and added units to formation to distinguish a BTS, thus making the SupCom the most aggressive formation in the game" situation (buy two Big Upgrades for one guy and n/one for the rest)

It does, however, make the Big Upgrades less valuable. I have 2 gargants built with the 2 Zzapp, 1 Grot Megamissile setup. This was because before now, that cost the same price as a 3 Zzapp, and the grots mean i get 2 extra shots on the turn I need it, rather than 1 shot every turn. at the same price, that was a decent tradeoff, so I went with the cooler model option.
Of course, now the 3 Zzapp costs 50 points less, and is thus a much better build.

I think the current Big Customs should become 25pts each (this would also solve the "weirdboy doesnt shoot enough" concern, as it would fire twice as much for the current price, but take up two slots)
I actually think that the Mega Missile could maybe even be moved into the regular upgrade option (though a 6 missile build might be too good, especially on disposable supastompas or blitzguard gargants)

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 Post subject: Re: Epic: Mechanicus Supplment - Ork Development
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:36 pm 
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Not part of the AOBGM playtesting, but this thread still seems the right place for this.

I just noticed that the Kolonel Sandorks' list in the latest supplement document still has Gunfortresses at +135 points, unlike Speed Freaks list in the same supplement, the same list in the NetEA Army pack, and pretty much every other "current" Ork list.

I suspect this was just an editing oversight, but wanted to check that this wasn't a deliberate choice to promote the air-mobile use of Mega Warkoptas or the like.


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 Post subject: Re: Epic: Mechanicus Supplment - Ork Development
PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:35 pm 
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DaR wrote:
Not part of the AOBGM playtesting, but this thread still seems the right place for this.

I just noticed that the Kolonel Sandorks' list in the latest supplement document still has Gunfortresses at +135 points, unlike Speed Freaks list in the same supplement, the same list in the NetEA Army pack, and pretty much every other "current" Ork list.

I suspect this was just an editing oversight, but wanted to check that this wasn't a deliberate choice to promote the air-mobile use of Mega Warkoptas or the like.



Hi DaR,

I'll let E&C comment as he wrote the lists, but I stongly suspect that GunForts should be 125pts in this list too.....

Cheers
Reedar


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 Post subject: Re: Epic: Mechanicus Supplment - Ork Development
PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:48 pm 
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OP updated with play test summary so far....


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 Post subject: Re: Epic: Mechanicus Supplment - Ork Development
PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 3:12 pm 
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Reedar wrote:
DaR wrote:
Not part of the AOBGM playtesting, but this thread still seems the right place for this.

I just noticed that the Kolonel Sandorks' list in the latest supplement document still has Gunfortresses at +135 points, unlike Speed Freaks list in the same supplement, the same list in the NetEA Army pack, and pretty much every other "current" Ork list.

I suspect this was just an editing oversight, but wanted to check that this wasn't a deliberate choice to promote the air-mobile use of Mega Warkoptas or the like.



Hi DaR,

I'll let E&C comment as he wrote the lists, but I stongly suspect that GunForts should be 125pts in this list too.....

Cheers
Reedar


Fixed that, thanks for spotting it.

I've also updated the file with the latest version of the Orkstein's Gargant Bigmob list from Reedar: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=26652&p=506005#p506005

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 Post subject: Re: Epic: Mechanicus Supplment - Ork Development
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 4:45 pm 
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Is it really correct that the additional power fields don't replace a weapon anymore? That's a rather drastic change as it basically means "unupgraded" gargants start with 4-12 additional power fields "for free". That might make some up the upgrade weapon options quite uninteresting in comparison.


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 Post subject: Epic: Mechanicus Supplment - Ork Development
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 7:10 pm 
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Dr. Pepper wrote:
Is it really correct that the additional power fields don't replace a weapon anymore? That's a rather drastic change as it basically means "unupgraded" gargants start with 4-12 additional power fields "for free". That might make some up the upgrade weapon options quite uninteresting in comparison.



Not quite. There are now two powerfield upgrades to choose from, both of which add 2xD3 power fields:

Biggs Generatas. This is a Kustom Upgrade that is free, although it replaces a weapon.

Mega Generatas. This is a BIG Kustom upgrade that therefore costs 50pts, although it doesn't replace a weapon.


The idea here was to provide the Ork player with different options without (hopefully) creating 'no brainer' upgrades.

So the Ork player can upgrade his power fields for free, although he does so at a compromise to his firepower.
Or he can do so without replacing a weapon, although he has to pay 50pts for the privilege.

Welcome thoughts/playtests on both of these.

Cheers
Reedar


Last edited by Reedar on Sat Mar 01, 2014 12:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Epic: Mechanicus Supplment - Ork Development
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 8:53 pm 
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I like the sound of that. Previously wouldn't have taken non-weapon upgrades as reducing firepower too much. Now would be worth taking but at a price, so nice option but not auto-include.

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 Post subject: Re: Epic: Mechanicus Supplment - Ork Development
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 7:53 am 
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Never mind then, either I got the wrong document or I misread it.


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