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Thraka's list critique

 Post subject: Thraka's list critique
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 2:31 am 
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hey guys, i'll probably be playing again with a bud of mine in a week, i've devised this relatively straightforward list and i'd like some feedback on it please. i've been having more success in battle of late, and i think i've finally started to get a hang of the game.

list follows:



LANDA [200]

WARBAND (BIG) [580]
4 Nobz, 12 Boyz, 4 Grotz, 2 Battlefortress

WARBAND (BIG) [580]
4 Nobz, 12 Boyz, 4 Grotz, 2 Battlefortress

WARBAND [300]
2 Nobz, 6 Boyz, 2 Grotz, 4 Kommandos

FIGHTA SKWADRON [250]
5 Fighta Bomba

MEKBOY STOMPAMOB [500]
3 Stompa, Supa Stompa

KULT OF SPEED [200]
8 Warbike

KULT OF SPEED [200]
8 Skorcha

MEKBOY GUNZMOB (BIG) [225]
10 Big Gunz

in particular i'm worried about the number of activations, but the 2 big warbands seem pretty solid generally as a rip and tear close combat force. i've mixed in some kommandos into the landa-borne formation to occupy weak CC but strong FF troops in the core of enemy formations (good idea? bad idea? no idea.) i think i'll pair the two kults of speed and use the bikes to provoke supporting fire for the skorchas, and then garrison the gunzmob somewhere midtable to use as a firesoak/blast generator/light shooty killer. fighta sqwadron is pretty small which worries me, but i'll probably just keep it in reserve or on CAP most of the time, i think it's a little weak to be running on enemy tanks. thoughts?


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 Post subject: Re: Thraka's list critique
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 5:42 am 
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I would loose the battle fortresses in both big warbands. That should give you some points too get at least one activation more. It should also give you some points to include to oddboys in the big guns formation (then garrison the formation to put some fear into the enemy right from the start).

Maybee split up the fighta bombas into wo formation for that extra activation also...

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 Post subject: Re: Thraka's list critique
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 7:10 am 
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is footslogging general a good idea? generally when i try it i just get blasted to shit by barrage weapons. i could try it though. what would you suggest for another formation? another kult? blitz brigade? warband?


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 Post subject: Re: Thraka's list critique
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 7:53 am 
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Hi Clik,

Few thoughts, in no particular order;

Your Stompa mob will be your toughest formation - try to make sure that you don't have anything else more expensive so it becomes your BTS.

You've got too many units in your small warband to for in the Landa (capacity is 10 plus 4 grotz).

Fightas a great at taking on enemy light vehicles, and also at laying a blast marker on enemy troops which are a long way away - good for prepping a Landa assault...
Personally I wouldn't worry to much about putting them on CAP. Esp as they do this only on a 3+ compared to 1+ when they ground attack!

Personally I would change the composition of your two big warbands, something like this maybe:

Big warband, with Warlord
Warband in Battlefortress
Warband in Battlefortress

That increases your activation count, improves your ability to react to the enemy and the big warband is great at guarding your blitz objective, esp if you get get them in cover.
Also means your warlord (you'll need that re-roll I promise you!) is more likely to survive too.

That should also leave you enough points to add some more tricks in, maybe a Oddboy with Zzap gun in your gunzmob and some more planes?

In response to your kommando question your logic is perfectly sound. Although generally speaking most people prefer to include an extra 2 boyz and 2 grotz (having four grotz is a great way of negating the damage the enemy can do to you) or include an extra 2 nobz (as this packs four 3+ attacks in b2b combat)


Hope some if that makes sense/helps

Cheers
Reedar


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 Post subject: Re: Thraka's list critique
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 9:18 am 
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yeah, makes total sense. i include the kommandos because of their infiltrator. generally i find that default warbands can close to CC with only 1/3-1/2 of the enemy formation, leaving the rest of them to freely shoot me. i'd like to see if the kommandos improve my ability to keep shooty infantry stuck in transports or to occupy tanks in CC to stop them from shooting me to death... can a non-planetfalling landa barge non-WE transports/tanks? if so, i think i might try slamming myself down in the middle of them and assaulting out in every direction of get as many CC attacks in as possible. workable?

also revised list. still debating whether or not to include commandos. all in all i think they're a pretty good unit, though outdone in straight CC and armor save by nobz (and don't have the very-nice-to-have leader trait)

revised list:


WARBAND (BIG) [350]
4 Nobz, 12 Boyz, 4 Grotz, Warlord

WARBAND [315]
2 Nobz, 6 Boyz, 2 Grotz, Battlefortress

WARBAND [315]
2 Nobz, 6 Boyz, 2 Grotz, Battlefortress

FIGHTA SKWADRON [350]
7 Fighta Bomba

WARBAND [250]
2 Nobz, 6 Boyz, 2 Grotz, 2 Kommandos

LANDA [200]

MEKBOY STOMPAMOB [500]
3 Stompa, Supa Stompa

KULT OF SPEED [200]
8 Warbike

KULT OF SPEED [200]
8 Warbuggy

MEKBOY GUNZMOB (BIG) [325]
10 Big Gunz, 2 Oddboy


i think i'll arm the 2 oddboyz in the gunzmob with soopagunz, the 4BP macro barrage is pretty killy.


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 Post subject: Re: Thraka's list critique
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 9:28 am 
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Looking better. I would have two formations of Fighter-Bommas, one of 4 and one of 3. Activations are important and it gives you the opportunity to stack more BM:s.

Be sure to put the Warlord and Big Gunz mob on Overwatch in cover. Cover will protect you from barrages, although you will suffer losses, but 4 Nobz are great at removing them.

For Landa load-outs, Skorchas are also a nice addition, the best FF support available.

I'm taking a guess that you are restricted by models. Consider switching one or two buggies to the war bike formation and vice versa. A pure Warbike formation have a harder time laying BM:s on that first turn.

Good luck,
Fredmans


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 Post subject: Re: Thraka's list critique
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 5:09 pm 
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should i garrison the boss and big gunz mob midtable if possible and put them on overwatch turn one?

i'll remember that part about mixing the cults of speed btw, makes perfect sense since 8 warbikes probably won't make it all into CC unless they're pretty lucky.

are warbuggies worth anything? i suppose you could use their shooting attack on a double move while you're closing for an assault with the warbikes? otherwise it seems skorchas are blanket superior for assault right? should i mix buggies and skorchas or just go with the skorchas for the speed kults and landa formations?

i'll split the fightas too, good idea thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Thraka's list critique
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 10:45 pm 
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Cik wrote:
should i garrison the boss and big gunz mob midtable if possible and put them on overwatch turn one?


If you can garrison them, especially in cover, go for it. Nothing to lose by starting the game on over watch.

I tend to garrison my big mob with warlord off my own blitz in cover - they become a bigger to shift then.




Cik wrote:
are warbuggies worth anything? i suppose you could use their shooting attack on a double move while you're closing for an assault with the warbikes? otherwise it seems skorchas are blanket superior for assault right? should i mix buggies and skorchas or just go with the skorchas for the speed kults and landa formations?



Buggies are pretty versatile units. Not quite as good as skorchas in a firefight, or warbikes in close combat - but that's the whole point.
The enemy chooses to firefight your bikes? You're screwed.
The enemy chooses to engage your skorchas in combat, you're stuffed.

However the enemy chooses to do EITHER to your buggies? Doesn't matter! Your stats are as good in either situation.

It also means that you choose the most appropriate way to engage the opposition without hindering yourself. E.g. If you engage marine devestators with your skorchas, you have to take them on at their strengths; firefights.

Whereas if you engage with buggies you can choose to get into combat and deny them the use of their superior firefight.


You're also right about being able to double and shoot - that 100cm reach can be pretty handy!

Cheers
Reedar


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 Post subject: Re: Thraka's list critique
PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 2:35 pm 
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OK, makes total sense

another question:

is there any purpose in planetfalling in ghazghkull's list?

it seems like it's useless, because unlike most other ork lists the krooza can't carry landas, so you need a battlekrooza right? and that doesn't arrive till turn 3

in my experience this makes it useless because you either carry enough troops to make a huge difference when they hit the dirt, and then lose because those troops weren't on the board to make the difference on turn 2 or you drop a tiny amount of guys that aren't enough to make the difference so why planetfall?

other lists seem to have landa-carrying kroozas or self-planetfall and stuff like that, why the difference on ghazghkull's list? has it been changed and i'm using an out of date book?


if that sounds complainy i'm sorry, just curious

i'll report back later today with a small battle report and tell you guys how the game went

also many thanks for the help so far


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 Post subject: Re: Thraka's list critique
PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 7:07 pm 
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Posts: 9609
Location: Nashville, TN, USA
Cik wrote:
WARBAND (BIG) [350]
4 Nobz, 12 Boyz, 4 Grotz, Warlord

WARBAND [315]
2 Nobz, 6 Boyz, 2 Grotz, Battlefortress

WARBAND [315]
2 Nobz, 6 Boyz, 2 Grotz, Battlefortress

FIGHTA SKWADRON [350]
7 Fighta Bomba

WARBAND [250]
2 Nobz, 6 Boyz, 2 Grotz, 2 Kommandos

LANDA [200]

MEKBOY STOMPAMOB [500]
3 Stompa, Supa Stompa

KULT OF SPEED [200]
8 Warbike

KULT OF SPEED [200]
8 Warbuggy

MEKBOY GUNZMOB (BIG) [325]
10 Big Gunz, 2 Oddboy

I add this up to 3005 points. Is that correct?

The only thing I would suggest is to try to work in a Nob or two on the Gunzmob. Gunz don't count for Mob Up, so the Leader ability is a big help.

Assuming my math is correct, I'd say drop a FB and add a Nob. That will shave 15 points so you come in at 2090 and get a Nob into the Gunz.


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 Post subject: Re: Thraka's list critique
PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 7:16 pm 
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Which army list are you using Clik? As that will have some bearing on costs...


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 Post subject: Re: Thraka's list critique
PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 7:37 pm 
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Ghazghkull mag Uruk thraka's, though i also really like albork orkstein's because i have a special place in my heart for titans.


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 Post subject: Re: Thraka's list critique
PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 8:18 pm 
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Sorry, I meant are you using the EUK or NETEA one?


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 Post subject: Re: Thraka's list critique
PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 9:57 pm 
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oh. my apologies.

the NETEA one


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 Post subject: Re: Thraka's list critique
PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 2:11 am 
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battle report follows:

first turn: deployment goes pretty much as expected. i garrison my big mob midtable and my big gunz in a nice 4+ coversave on the right hand side, hoping to shoot approaching tanks and stuff. turn 1 begins. i win initiative and immediately fire all my big gunz at a massive tank-thing scoring a decent chunk of damage. my ally (necron player) manages to rout an infantry blob in one shot.kind of improbable but whatevers. i managed to rout some stalk tanks with the shooting from my two kults of speed. i roll in some rokkits to blast some unguarded artillery and score a kill, which blasts the other two into total uselessness. which is nice.

massive artillery barrage comes out from an arti warband and scores a few kills on my big boyz mob, but all the nobz survive which is good news. i lose two grotz and a boyz or two but no problems so far. on the right my big gunz get shredded and routed by two or three formations dedicated to their extermination. i stall for time by putting my other fighta bombas on CAP, fearing the interceptors on the other side of the table. i then double up my supastompamob and blast some infantry into chunks. he rolls up a baneblade and fires all his weapons at a speed kult. to my great glee, they all miss aside from a single heavy stubber, which i save. ~lel~ he then rolls up another megatank and shoots my supastompamob, which save with little trouble. no problem. i move up my two battlefortress warbands and spray and pray some to give blasts and that's my turn. after my turn ends my opponent marches around a bit.

rally goes exceedingly well for me, rallying literally everything on the table that's blasted, including my broken big gunz mob who still has one supazzap intact.

end of turn 1

turn 2 begins with a massive teleport in from my necron friend. he teleports in a monolith formation around his aeonic orb, and one directly behind the enemy's artillery, he then barely wins initiative and pours his necrons into firefight with the enemy's massive artillery blob. this goes about as you'd expect; casualties are inflicted, including two dead to the 6+ melee attack of an artillery piece. talk about humiliating.

as expected (though it was surprisingly close) the artillery takes four in hackdown and routs before getting a second shot. phew. flayed ones then failed their activation. welp. a massive blob of mechanized infantry encircle the aeonic orb and assault it, but they lose the assault to some nigh-miraculous armor saves and good shooting from the orb. disaster averted.

my turn starts with a double move and shooting with my stompamob, which brings it into supporting fire range to a massive mob of ready-to-go ork assault infantry. i then move up one of my speed kults and assault into a group of stalk tanks, calling in supporting fire from a nearby warband, he calls in supportive fire from an infantry formation and a leviathan. it's not a good time. i win the assault due to some bad luck and lucky armor saves, and the stalk tanks are obliterated. the aeonic orb fires again and blows another half of a formation off the table. my ally then retains and teleports some destroyers in and goes to pester some more infantry. instead of pestering them he wipes them all out. hehehehe. a massive assault is fought between the infantry in the leviathan and a nearby squad and one of my kults of speed and a nearby warband, i lose badly because of the overwhelming firepower and lose a speed kult and a warband+transport, i then assault his infantry blob to the east with a fresh warband plus my reconstituted big gunz mob and one perfect health supastompa and his still-alive stompa friend. even with all the weight of supporting fire it comes down to a roll off, which i lose by one. i take the hackdown on a grot and retreat slightly to behind the objective. it's my ally's turn and he doubles up a monolith formation and assaults a solitary baneblade.


and that's where we stopped.

been a fun game so far, less one sided than usual

i'm not sure if anyone actually wanted me to type this but it was fun writing it anyway

tl;dr

epic was played, fun was had

this was the list i went with, had to chop it down a bit because i ended up playing with an ally and at less points than i had intended. the structure's pretty much the same though, your guys advice was really useful. thanks for it.



WARBAND (BIG) [350]
4 Nobz, 12 Boyz, 4 Grotz, Warlord

WARBAND [315]
2 Nobz, 6 Boyz, 2 Grotz, Battlefortress

WARBAND [315]
2 Nobz, 6 Boyz, 2 Grotz, Battlefortress

MEKBOY STOMPAMOB [500]
3 Stompa, Supa Stompa

KULT OF SPEED [200]
4 Warbike, 2 Skorcha, 2 Warbuggy

KULT OF SPEED [200]
4 Warbike, 2 Skorcha, 2 Warbuggy

MEKBOY GUNZMOB (BIG) [325]
10 Big Gunz, 2 Oddboy

FIGHTA SKWADRON [150]
3 Fighta Bomba

FIGHTA SKWADRON [150]
3 Fighta Bomba


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