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Traitor Titan Legions (TTL) v2.2 and v2.31b [Developmental]

 Post subject: Traitor Titan Legions (TTL) v2.2 and v2.31b [Developmental]
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 1:22 pm 
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Welcome to the Traitor Titan Legion list, which is intended to cover all your traitor titan legion needs, regardless of which Ruinous Power(s) you're currently in cahoots with, or if you worship Chaos Undivided. The list allows for mixing of different powers (unless they hate each other), as well as playing one power purely (which is actually strongly encouraged). And everything can summon daemons, which is kind of neat.

The main issue facing the list at the moment is that it is a War Engine list. Like most such lists, draws are unfortunately quite frequent. Through the versions I've tried to come up with different ways of dealing with this.

Haven't been playtesting the list in a while, but I'm optimistic that will change in the near future as I get TTL done for TTS (Tabletop Simulator). If anyone gets the TTL on the table, please mention how it went in the comments. If you can do a battle report, all the better!

Battle Reports and Tournaments done with version 2.1:

Castle Assault 2018, AU
http://epicau-tp.com/fullResultDisplay. ... sault,2018 2 wins (AMTL & LATD), 2 losses (Steel Legion and Knight World) and 1 winning draw (Steel Legion). Overall result 8 out of 13.

TTL Tzeentch vs E-UK Steel Legion
http://www.taccmd.tacticalwargames.net/ ... 84&t=33465

TTL Chaos Undivided vs NetEA Iyanden (with playtest of Crippling Damage rule)
http://www.taccmd.tacticalwargames.net/ ... 84&t=33560

Battle reports for older versions

vs Gargants
viewtopic.php?f=84&t=32273

vs White Scars
viewtopic.php?f=84&t=32248

vs Squats
viewtopic.php?f=84&t=32144

vs White Scars
viewtopic.php?f=84&t=32201

vs Dark Eldar
viewtopic.php?f=84&t=32178

Update 11/7 2018: Version 2.1

Nerfed the Heretek Anyon Cannon from 45cm to 30 cm. With all the other gear the Change and Decay Knights have, it was a bit overkill.

Update 15/9 2018: Version 2.2b

Thought I'd share the beta version for v2.2. And since it's a Beta, version 2.1 is still the "current" version.

Quite a few proposed changes:
-> Factions are out, "Eternal Animosity" is in. The difference between Factions and Eternal Animosity is that it would be completely prohibited to mix factions that hate each other in the same army. Removes the need for cumbersome initiative modifiers, and cuts down on possible combinations. But it would prohibit an "all-stars" army, which is kind of sad.
-> Crippling Damage on WE with 6+ DC. Makes it a lot easier to "soft-kill" the big titans. All affected WE 25-50 points cheaper, and almost all of them would have nastier Crits (always +1 Damage).
-> Harbringer Bomber -25pts
-> New Weapon: Retlaxi Trident. Replaces the Infernal Projector. Chaos Undivided Only Carapace weapon that has Shield Piercer (ignores fields and shields). Big brother to the Ursus Claw.
-> The Death Wheel would have a "Retlaxi" prefix to differentiate it from the Black Legion Death Wheel that has 1+ Initiative. The Retlaxi version would still have 2+init, but would be 5cm faster.
-> Hell-blades back at 15cm range and AA5+ like in Black Legion, as ERC apparently rejected that proposed change.
-> Battle Titan costs are 950, 700 and 525 points.
-> Fixed the Weapon Arcs on the Knights.

Update 15/10 2018: Version 2.2
The votes are in and Eternal Animosity seems to have been the crowd favorite. So it has now replaced the Factions rule... No more mixing of hated powers (but there's plenty of choice left of course). All the changes in the Beta version remain, along with a few extras.

-> Crippling damage also gives -1 initiative.
-> Hell-Striders are now 6 for 225 points. This formation was way overpriced before, and much too fragile compared to the other Slaanesh Knights.
-> Battle Titan CC weapon now has TK(D3+1)

13/11 2018: v2.31 Experimental Beta
After doing some playtesting with the "Crippling Damage" rule I've decided that it doesn't really achieve much, so instead I'm replacing it with a variant of the "God Machines" rule from AMTL called "Towering Incarnations of Chaos". This only applies to Chaos Warlords and Chaos Emperor Titans, but is a lot nastier than the AMTL version:

Quote:
Towering Incarnations of Chaos:
Whenever a Chaos Warlord is destroyed, all friendly formations suffer D3+1 Blast Markers. Whenever a Chaos Imperator is destroyed, all friendly formations suffer D6+1 Blast Markers.


This rule replaced the Crippling Damage rule in 2.2 as well. The idea is to give people a reason to attack and destroy the big WE.

-> Decided that I really like the "Split Fire" mechanic. It makes the big titans feel big, and they give them something different that smaller titans don't have, so it's included in this version as well.

-> Changed the stats on the Greater Brass Scorpion, giving it 4++ save and +25pts in cost. The GB Scorpions and the Death Wheels can now max be 2 in a formation.

Some weapons now have better range than before as well.

As soon as I've got a chance to playtest the beta a bit, and hopefully get some feedback on the Split Fire rule, I'll make the beta the main version.

As usual, all significant changes are marked in purple.

A temporary Army Forge file for v2.2 can be found @
https://magnusdurr.github.io/snapfire/w ... an_Legions

(The army forge file for TTL is really complex, so if you find any bugs, please mention it!)


Attachments:
Traitor Titan Legions v2,31 Beta.pdf [108.21 KiB]
Not downloaded yet
Traitor Titan Legions v2,2.pdf [107.47 KiB]
Downloaded 14 times
Traitor Titan Legions 2,2 QRS.pdf [186.82 KiB]
Downloaded 9 times

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Last edited by Mrdiealot on Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:27 pm, edited 91 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: [Experimental] Chaos Titan Legion (CTL) list
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 2:41 pm 
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woo!

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Last edited by IJW Wartrader on Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: [Experimental] Chaos Titan Legion (CTL) list
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 3:05 pm 
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Grattis! Och lycka till!

Congrats! And good luck!

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 Post subject: Re: [Experimental] Chaos Titan Legion (CTL) list
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 3:42 pm 
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Good one. Nice to see this moving along

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 Post subject: Re: [Experimental] Chaos Titan Legion (CTL) list
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:54 pm 
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Titans + Daemons = LOVE <3


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 Post subject: Re: [Experimental] Chaos Titan Legion (CTL) list
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 6:30 pm 
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We cant get enough chaos titans, especially the Slaanesh scouts.

Looking forward to see more


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 Post subject: Re: [Experimental] Chaos Titan Legion (CTL) list
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 6:47 pm 
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Mrdiealot wrote:
The "Animosity" rule from Lost and the Damned is virtually certain to be included.

As far as I'm aware this rule now only exists in the NetEA Stigmatus Coven list and the (relatively unused) EpicUK LatD list. It's been removed from/not used in Lost and the Damned Redux, Red Corsairs, Ghallamore Incursion and all variants of Black Legion.

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 Post subject: Re: [Experimental] Chaos Titan Legion (CTL) list
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:43 pm 
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My dearest wish for an army is a list in which taking 2-3 Khorne Lords of Battle is possible/remotely usable. Mostly because I really need an excuse to make some Lords of Battle. Think they'll be included here?


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 Post subject: Re: [Experimental] Chaos Titan Legion (CTL) list
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 12:01 am 
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mordoten wrote:
Grattis! Och lycka till!

Congrats! And good luck!


Tack!

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 Post subject: Re: [Experimental] Chaos Titan Legion (CTL) list
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 12:17 am 
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IJW Wartrader wrote:
Mrdiealot wrote:
The "Animosity" rule from Lost and the Damned is virtually certain to be included.

As far as I'm aware this rule now only exists in the NetEA Stigmatus Coven list and the (relatively unused) EpicUK LatD list. It's been removed from/not used in Lost and the Damned Redux, Red Corsairs, Ghallamore Incursion and all variants of Black Legion.


Well, we play the LatD quite a lot in my group, and it's actually a very strong list. But it is odd in many respects, and it would be interesting to know if the update to the Epic UK version I've heard rumors of will keep animosity (or "factions" as the rule is actually named). One reason I like it is because of fluff (it first appeared in the Rogue Trader era with the first chaos books). I can see "mortal" chaos getting along, but daemons really can't stand each other... And chaos titans are very daemonic in nature, they're pretty much gigantic daemon engines.

Also, perhaps more importantly, it presents players with interesting trade-offs in army composition and tactics. I think the list is going to be easier to balance as well. Trying to take the best bits from all chaos powers will make your list a lot more unstable.

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 Post subject: Re: [Experimental] Chaos Titan Legion (CTL) list
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 12:26 am 
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NoisyAssassin wrote:
My dearest wish for an army is a list in which taking 2-3 Khorne Lords of Battle is possible/remotely usable. Mostly because I really need an excuse to make some Lords of Battle. Think they'll be included here?


I'm a bit on the fence about daemon engines in general, with chaos it's real easy to get way too many choices into the lists. Maybe they could replace the option to take Khorne Warhounds as in E-UK World Eaters. They're a really fun and not very OP unit (no walker, no shields), so I'll definitely think about it.

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 Post subject: Re: [Experimental] Chaos Titan Legion (CTL) list
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 12:49 am 
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Agreed on the Factions rule. It's probably easier To manage anyway in a Titan list where you tend to have a low number of small factions.

Also agreed on Daemon Engines in general - stuff like Silver Towers or Contagions wouldn't really fit. Lords of Battle and Slaaneshi Subjugators and Questors, on the other hand...

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 Post subject: Re: [Experimental] Chaos Titan Legion (CTL) list
PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 1:59 am 
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Version 1.0 is up, and can be found in the first post as normal.

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 Post subject: Re: [Experimental] Chaos Titan Legion (CTL) list
PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 5:26 am 
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Great thanks


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 Post subject: Re: [Experimental] Chaos Titan Legion (CTL) list
PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 9:29 am 
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Excellent! I really like the overall feel, apart from a concern that lists will have to load up on Lesser Daemon Engine Formations due to Greater Daemon Engines being limited to one per Battle Titan. That will need some playtesting, though.


I assume from some of the weapon stats and from the criticals that this is mostly based on the EpicUK lists?

The NetEA Warhound equivalents, Lords of Battle, Subjugators and Questors only take damage from criticals if the random move makes them walk into something. The EpicUK crits are probably more balanced, I just wanted to check this is intentional.


Nurgle weapons also have some discrepancies from the current Death Guard list, so it might be worth changing either the stats or the names:

CTL Decay Cannon: 30cm 4xAP3+, Disrupt
DG Decay Cannon: 30cm 3xAP3+/AT5+, Disrupt

CTL Putrifier Cannon: 45cm 4xAP3+/AT5+, Disrupt
DG Putrifier Cannon: 60cm 4xAP3+/AT5+, Disrupt

The Corruption Cannon and Heavy Plague Mortar already have different names from the Liquefier Cannon and Plague Mortar so that's not an issue.


Rules Q: all formations have Daemonic Pact? That might be worth spelling out more clearly.

Army Q: AA coverage is only from the Heretek Shrine and Temple? EDIT - and aircraft, obviously!

Army Q: when you pick a Battle Titan, do the Greater and Lesser Daemon Engine formations have to be from the same faction? For example a Nurgle Chaos Reaver Titan and an Undivided Chaos Warhound?

Unit Q: Defilers have a smaller main gun. I assume this is to make the Titans more popular for range? 10cm move on the Nurgle ones means they will never be taken, but I'm not sure what to do differently. Maybe lose Walker?

Typo: the Emperor, Warlord and Reaver Titans have Carpace Weapons, this should be Carapace Weapons.

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