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Emperor's Children 4.1 (NetEA APPROVED)

 Post subject: Emperor's Children 4.1 (NetEA APPROVED)
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 5:43 pm 
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Thanks to the worldwide efforts of some dedicated playtesters, the degenerates of the E:A universe have a home:

The Emperor's Children 4.1 list!

Links to the TP and pdf versions below:

http://tp.net-armageddon.org/army-lists/chaos-space-marine-emperors-children.html
http://tp.net-armageddon.org/pdfs/netea-chaos-space-marine-emperors-children.pdf

My plan is to let this list stew/marinate in its own (icky) juices for a while, and propose and test changes if/when the need for them reaches some critical mass... ~ 6 months - 1 year from now if I had to guess. My goal is quality data, not stagnation.

I'd like to thank especially (in no particular order - except Dave; he should be last):
Dave, Apocolocyntosis, kyussinchains, rttoomey, moridin, chivalrynsorcery, Graf_Spee, Roboshadow, PFE (and any others from the Aussie batrep machine that I might have missed), Dwarf Supreme, uberChris, bezerkermonkey, Brad, Karl, Gunslinger007, Steve54, and the ERC. Thank you all and sorry to those I might've forgotten!

Questions, comments, and concerns about the list (again, those accompanied by batreps much appreciated) should be posted here.

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Last edited by captPiett on Fri Jun 24, 2016 1:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Emperor's Children 4.1 (NetEA APPROVED)
PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 5:44 am 
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I just wanted to say how pleased I am with with the Slaaneshi-themed typo in your thanks.

((and any others from the Assie batrep machine that I might have missed))

Well played sir, well played.


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 Post subject: Re: Emperor's Children 4.1 (NetEA APPROVED)
PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 1:51 pm 
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Doomkitten wrote:
I just wanted to say how pleased I am with with the Slaaneshi-themed typo in your thanks.

((and any others from the Assie batrep machine that I might have missed))

Well played sir, well played.


I think it may be called serendipity because that was totally unintentional :o (no BS there, Australia - I try keep my thank you's relatively serious). I'll leave it here because it is funny, but I'll edit the original post :P

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 Post subject: Re: Emperor's Children 4.1 (NetEA APPROVED)
PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 3:04 pm 
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my only suggestion is to keep an eye on the terminator formation, with the added option to air assault with them, they may be a tad cheap, other than that however I think it's a balanced list

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 Post subject: Re: Emperor's Children 4.1 (NetEA APPROVED)
PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 3:59 pm 
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Good to know, Kyuss. Thank you.

EC players, you have your commander's intent:

1) general unproductive raiding and debauchery, because well, that's our bag, baby.
2) try out t-hawks with termies and see what happens. (too cheap? easy button? broken?)

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 Post subject: Re: Emperor's Children 4.1 (NetEA APPROVED)
PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 3:36 am 
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captPiett wrote:
I think it may be called serendipity because that was totally unintentional :o (no BS there, Australia - I try keep my thank you's relatively serious). I'll leave it here because it is funny, but I'll edit the original post :P


Me and PFE100, had no problems with it, if fact we had a great chuckle and we both agreed you were under some kind of influence..... ;D

We will test the t-hawks with termies, next time we take the EC out... ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Emperor's Children 4.1 (NetEA APPROVED)
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 3:42 am 
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kyussinchains wrote:
my only suggestion is to keep an eye on the terminator formation, with the added option to air assault with them, they may be a tad cheap, other than that however I think it's a balanced list


Must admit I just don't agree with this at all. Yes they are a bit cheaper than the loyalist version but we need to remember how easily chaos marines are broken and how easily they die when they are. Totally different equation with loyalist marines even before you factor in that the same applies to the thunder hawk.

I've had plenty of games now with chaos termies and Hawks (mostly for red corsairs) and increasing their points beyond the standard 275 is not a good idea at all.


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 Post subject: Re: Emperor's Children 4.1 (NetEA APPROVED)
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 12:32 pm 
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I think that if you're playing codex marines effectively, (ie. Recycling them with a second thunderhawk) the termies are usually off the table again before they pick up many blast markers, its certainly the case that if I'm doing well with marines, ATSKNF rarely comes into effect with my terminators, same with chaos termies if you pull off the recycling technique or like in my last EC batrep you kill everything within reprisal distance

I think they were costed appropriately for a formation that is usually going to be teleporting in, but adding the thunderhawk option makes them much much nastier (not at the mercy of the strategy roll or failing to roll to activate, can fly over scout screens, can activate at the end of the turn etc etc) in my last game, codex termies would have performed identically but cost 125 points more, the lack of ATSKNF didnt come into play, I'm not saying that they should cost the same as codex but I think an extra 25 points is justified when the air assault option is added in exactly the same way that IF terminators were reduced by 25 pts when they lost access to thunderhawks and landing craft

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 Post subject: Re: Emperor's Children 4.1 (NetEA APPROVED)
PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 11:40 am 
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kyussinchains wrote:
I think that if you're playing codex marines effectively, (ie. Recycling them with a second thunderhawk) the termies are usually off the table again before they pick up many blast markers, its certainly the case that if I'm doing well with marines, ATSKNF rarely comes into effect with my terminators, same with chaos termies if you pull off the recycling technique or like in my last EC batrep you kill everything within reprisal distance


See I think you are brushing over the fundamental difference between loyal and chaos marine termies. You can use my most recent bat rep to show what I'm talking about. In my case it went:

Termies teleport in (taking 1 blast marker)
Chaos marines lose strat roll off (loyal would have won because of the extra +1
Chaos marines take 1 casualty and break (Loyalists wouldn't have broken)
Chaos marines fall back.
They then get shot by a BP3 barrage which kills one automatically (Loyalists wouldn't have lost any) and because one died the three remaining termies were wiped out (loyalists would have lost 2/3)

Frankly if you manage to teleport them in (odds are taking a blast marker) then fight the combat in the first activation then survive long enough to get a Thawk to them you're opponent isn't playing it right. Such small units are easy to break and go to pieces in seconds afterwards.


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 Post subject: Re: Emperor's Children 4.1 (NetEA APPROVED)
PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 11:46 am 
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Why would you teleport them in though? You fly them in in a thunderhawk and pick them up with another them. Thats the best way to use them without a doubt.

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 Post subject: Re: Emperor's Children 4.1 (NetEA APPROVED)
PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 3:53 pm 
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mordoten wrote:
Thats the best way to use them without a doubt.


No, that's subjective.

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 Post subject: Re: Emperor's Children 4.1 (NetEA APPROVED)
PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 4:54 pm 
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Beefcake4000 wrote:
kyussinchains wrote:
I think that if you're playing codex marines effectively, (ie. Recycling them with a second thunderhawk) the termies are usually off the table again before they pick up many blast markers, its certainly the case that if I'm doing well with marines, ATSKNF rarely comes into effect with my terminators, same with chaos termies if you pull off the recycling technique or like in my last EC batrep you kill everything within reprisal distance


See I think you are brushing over the fundamental difference between loyal and chaos marine termies. You can use my most recent bat rep to show what I'm talking about. In my case it went:

Termies teleport in (taking 1 blast marker)
Chaos marines lose strat roll off (loyal would have won because of the extra +1
Chaos marines take 1 casualty and break (Loyalists wouldn't have broken)
Chaos marines fall back.
They then get shot by a BP3 barrage which kills one automatically (Loyalists wouldn't have lost any) and because one died the three remaining termies were wiped out (loyalists would have lost 2/3)

Frankly if you manage to teleport them in (odds are taking a blast marker) then fight the combat in the first activation then survive long enough to get a Thawk to them you're opponent isn't playing it right. Such small units are easy to break and go to pieces in seconds afterwards.


but that's the point I'm making though, teleporting them exposes them to all that stuff, they are costed perfectly well at 275 points in a list without access to thunderhawks, that was never what I was trying to say

in your example above, you're not factoring in the fact that had you thunderhawked the termies in rather than teleporting, you wouldn't have had to roll for blast markers, nor would you have been a sitting duck if you'd lost the strategy roll, sure if you'd bought them on early in the turn you'd be in the same situation, plus you would probably have lost the thunderhawk (but that might well have happened with a loyal thawk too) but that's not how to get the maximum out of terminators in a thunderhawk.... to do so you need to use everything else at your disposal to knock out ground AA and cut enemy activations, only when your opponent is unable to react do you commit the terminators

I did this in my last EC batrep and it worked like a charm, my knghts and orbital assets worked their magic and put me ahead of the activation curve, leaving the terminators to come on and dish out some pain unopposed

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Last edited by kyussinchains on Tue Jun 28, 2016 5:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Emperor's Children 4.1 (NetEA APPROVED)
PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 5:01 pm 
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Dave wrote:
mordoten wrote:
Thats the best way to use them without a doubt.


No, that's subjective.


I think that thunderhawking them in is a generally more effective way to use them, unless your opponent has nightwings, with the chaos lists you do have the option of using daemons when teleporting, but you're vulnerable to strategy rolloff, inherent risk of blast markers, can be screened etc.

I don't think many of the top marine players in the UK that I know ever teleport their terminators in

If you can pull off the 'recycling with a second thunderhawk' trick correctly (and it takes a bit of work to do so) then you're unlikely to take many blast markers or expose them for long so you don't miss the loss of ATSKNF nearly as much

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 Post subject: Re: Emperor's Children 4.1 (NetEA APPROVED)
PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 8:54 pm 
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Dave wrote:
mordoten wrote:
Thats the best way to use them without a doubt.


No, that's subjective.


Haha, okaaaayyyyy.... ::)

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 Post subject: Re: Emperor's Children 4.1 (NetEA APPROVED)
PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 10:43 pm 
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Dave wrote:
mordoten wrote:
Thats the best way to use them without a doubt.


No, that's subjective.


Agreed.

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