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Night Lords v0.3

 Post subject: Re: Night Lords v0.3
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 3:55 pm 
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chaos thunderhawks already exist in two other lists, the Approved Emperor's children and the solidly developmental Red Corsairs, they are identical to regular codex thunderhawks except that they do not possess 'And they shall know no fear' which does make them more vulnerable when on the ground, I don't see why they should change further

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 Post subject: Re: Night Lords v0.3
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 4:29 pm 
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Like I said, it was just a suggestion as a means to provide greater differentiation with the Codex Marine version, in order to give greater freedom when creating or amending Chaos lists.

That said, having the unit present in approved lists tends is a big disincentive to adopt further changes, especially when they require the development of a new and weaker unit to replace something which must have been extensively tested in the new lists.

'Nuff said, should have chipped in earlier in the development cycle. :{[]


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 Post subject: Re: Night Lords v0.3
PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2016 4:00 am 
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Hi All

Just touching base with everyone on how the Night Lords list is travelling. I have had four more games in the last couple of months, three against the Emperor’s Children which was for two wins and a draw and one against Biel-Tan Eldar which turned out to be a minor defeat.

Whilst we are early on with this project here are some of my impressions.

- Having the Raptor’s as a Core Formation is winner. This gives the Night Lords extra mobility and nuisance value, and really adds much to the flavour of the list. Combining two Raptor Cults into the Thunderhawk has also worked quite well.

- I am taking a liking to the Talon Pattern Warhound, but have found it is best used in tandem with the standard Warhound. I have not yet played a game using a Reaver. Maybe one idea that could go into the next version of the list would be in addition to counting the Reaver as part of the Dark Mechanicum/Navy part of the list, for it to also take up two or three Elite formation choices as well. This would force players to make choices between having the Reaver versus Terminators, Terror Claws etc.

- I have used Terror Claws in every game and I have found they seem to lack any significant impact on the turn they surface. Knowing the Night Lords doctrine of doing whatever they can to avoid fair fights if possible and the panic/disruption caused by some Terror Claws suddenly appearing amidst an enemy battleline I would propose adding one additional special rule to this formation as below. This rule is in part inspired by the drop pod rules:

“We bring the night”: Just after setting up the Terror Claws using the tunneller rule, choose one enemy formation within 15cm. This formation automatically takes one blast marker.

- With the “We have come for you” rules, the extra bonus if the enemy has more blast markers seems to be working fine. However, I feel that the -1 to enemy rally roles within 30cm might be way too effective. I now intend on playtesting -1 to rally to units within 15cm instead as well as making sure that if the opponent rolls a 6 for their rally roll this will be an auto-rally (as some formations that activate on 3+ will otherwise need a 7+ to rally which is harsh).

- I also have two tweaks intended for the next version of the list
1. Change Havocs upgrade to 1-4 at 40 points each.
2. Vindicator profile to actually go into the army reference sheet (same as Chaos Vindicator from 13th BC List).

Hopefully this will be enough food for thought for a while. This list is fine to sit on the slow burner until at least after the Red Corsairs are up and running. Please do let me know if you have any comments or ideas. I will do my best to promptly reply. Cheers.


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 Post subject: Re: Night Lords v0.3
PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2016 7:26 am 
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Ouch -1 for your opponents formations within 30cm to rally is harsh... I feel bad for any Ork players going up against that.

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 Post subject: Re: Night Lords v0.3
PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 1:16 pm 
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Hi All

Just again touching base with everyone on where the Night Lords are up to at this stage. I have only had the one game of late using the Night Lords List. The game was against a Stigmatus Covenant list which featured two Khorne Lords of Battle. The game ended after the fourth turn 0-0 on objectives with the Night Lords ahead on victory points 1060 to 745. The list I have been using recently is as follows (my next list is not having x2 BTS units).

Night Lords 3000 points

Night Lords Company with Champion 470
+Warlord upgrade +2 Havocs +4 Rhinos +Hyperios

Raptor Cult with Champion 175

Raptor Cult with Champion 175

Scouts 135
+1 Rhino

Terror Claws with Sorcerer 285
+1 extra Terror Claw +Sniper Upgrade

Armoured Company 470
3 Land Raiders
2 Predators
+2 Vindicator +Hyperios

Terminators with Champion 340
+1 extra Terminator

Warhound Titan 275

Warhound Titan: Talon Pattern 275

Thunderhawk Gunship 200

Hellblade Fighters 200

We played the game with the now reduced 15cm -1 to rally for enemy formations in the end phase (as part of the “We have come for you” special rule). I do not think this change hurts the Night Lords list too much. In fact it creates an interesting risk vs reward dynamic. Although this dynamic will vary dependent on a number of factors such as the initiative value of opposition formations and the strategy rating of the opposition army.

The risk been for the Night Lords to benefit they need to push within assault range of pretty much everything now and can in many instances be vulnerable to counter attack should the formation they are harrying rally, especially to those that can potentially summon some Daemons in for fun as well. In the game mentioned above the Night Lords broke one of the Lords of Battle and one of the Raptor packs moved to within 15cm to make it much harder for it to rally. My army list had two Raptor packs, one of which I would often save to activate late in the turn for this purpose. Again this ties in well with the Raptor theme that is quite prevalent in the Night Lords background.

The other impact of this rule was it forced my opponent to more seriously consider using the Regroup order to minimise the chances of his formations hitting a tipping point and breaking. Also he had to think more about protecting his formations that had broken.

The Terror Claws in this game again didn’t get to do very much at all, as the nearest enemy formation (which had been the only opposition formation not covered by ground based AA) had already been destroyed by a Thunderhawk bourne assault.

I will be doing up the next version of the Army List most likely in July. And as before I would urge people to still spend their time on getting the Red Corsairs over the line. In the meantime this list can keep happily stewing. Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: Night Lords v0.3
PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 5:38 am 
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As promised there here is the new update for the Night Lords.

This update is designated as Night Lords 0.3b. Updated PDFs are on first post of this thread.

Main changes include:

1. Added Vindicator profile to the Night Lords Reference.

2. Thunderhawk Gunship moved to Dark Mechanicum/Navy Section.

3. Land Raiders upgrade changed from up to 3 to up to 6.

4. Havocs Changed from 4 for 150 points to 1-4 at 40 points each

5. Part of the “We have come for you” special rule:
2. All Enemy formations within 30cm of any unbroken Night Lords Formations are at an additional -1 their rally test in the end phase. New version has changed this to 15cm.

6. Added Special Rule for the Terror Claws Formation
“We bring the night”
When placing the first unit of Terror Claws as per the tunneller special rule choose any enemy formation within 15cm of the unit, with that selected formation automatically taking one blast marker.

I have only had one game of late against a Steel Legion army which ended up as a 3-0 victory for the Night Lords, although a big factor in the game was some very subpar armour saves which saw a Leman Russ company routed by one round of fire from the Night Lords Armoured Company and two Shadowswords blowing up from critical hits in successive turns. This essentially stalled the Imperial Guard advance and very much limited what they could do in the fourth turn.

The Terror Claws actually got involved in this game emerging in turn four to put a blast marker on a broken Sentinel squad that was skulking around after failing to rally in the previous turn. They then used their position to shoot and break a hydra battery which opened up a clear flightpath for the Thunderhawk to drop the surviving Terminators (it picked up in turn three) onto the blitz objective.

The two Warhounds I had only played a limited impact on the game with Deathstrikes felling one early. The Talon pattern Warhound was lost to Shadowswords as I threw everything I could at them before the Leman Russ Company could intervene. The two Raptor packs deployed from a Thunderhawk to drive away an enemy Warhound, before one pack was sacrificed to hamper the advance of the Leman Russ Company.

I at this stage satisfied with the ability the Night Lords have to cause disruption to opposition armies. They are perhaps more fragile than some of the other Chaos Lists with no ability to summon Daemonshields (or have Daemon Engines for that matter) but they do come into their own if they can get their opponents on the back foot. I still could not find a way justify any disrupt weaponry into this list, but the “We bring the night” special rule does achieve a similar effect for the Terror Claws.

It would be interesting to see people having a play around with this army list and providing some feedback. I also would like to take this opportunity to congratulate Kyuss and everyone who efforts managed to get the Red Corsair’s into approved status. Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: Night Lords v0.3
PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:08 am 
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Hi All

I missed one detail I had intended for the 0.3b update as highlighted below.

5. Part of the “We have come for you” special rule:
2. All Enemy formations within 30cm of any unbroken Night Lords Formations are at an additional -1 their rally test in the end phase. New version has changed this to 15cm. New version will also allow an opponent who rolls a 6 for their rally roll to be an auto-rally.

If people who are playing any games with this list can play the list with this part added that would be great.

This amendment will be officially in the next update.

Thanks again.


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 Post subject: Re: Night Lords v0.3
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 5:33 am 
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Hi All

It has been while since my last post back in August so it was probably about time I touched base with where things are up to with the Night Lords. I have recently had three games with the Night Lords for one win, a draw and a loss with a brief description appearing below. The list I used for all these games was as in one of the above posts, except I have moved one Vindicator from the Night Lords Tank Company to the Night Lords Company to make sure I only had one BTS.

The game against the Gargants was with a player who had not used them before. I managed for the most part to avoid the Gargants in the first two turns and was well placed to threaten objectives in the opposition table side. The game opened up on the third turn with the Terror Claws emerging in a city up area to put down a blast marker on a Super Stompa just before it was assaulted by teleporting Terminators who broke it and reduced it to a single damage point. The retaliation from the Gargants routed the Terminators from the game and broke the Terror Claws. This ended up proving a problem for the Orks as they got so carried away on their revenge spree that they failed to pull back one of their Gargants back to protect the Blitz objective. Once the Gargants had exhausted their activations I just needed to fly my Thunderhawk through an uncapped Ork Fighter-Bomberz squad for the win. The Night Lords won 2-0 on victory conditions, had the Gargant’s better protected the Blitz the game likely would have ended in a draw.

The game against Iyanden had really aggressive tempo from turn 1 and the first game I have ever played that went to a fifth turn. The Night Lords advanced down both flanks against a more centrally deployed Eldar force led by a pair of Revenant Titans. The Eldar used their speed with repeated retain activations to utterly smash one of my flanks with my Tank Company and both Warhounds wiped out and the Night Lords Company (BTS) mauled and forced to pull back. My other flank of scouts advanced into a city area, they were soon joined by the Thunderhawk borne Raptor Packs and the Terminators. The Terror Claws also emerged in this area to put a blast marker down on the Storm Serpent before the Terminators assaulted and destroyed it, the Eldar in this area also lost their Night Spinners and had their Rangers broken. The Terror Claws themselves were almost wiped out by the Avatar after some counter-attacking Wraithguard broke a unit of Raptors who were trying to act as a screen. By the end of Turn 3 victory conditions were locked at 1-1 with both sides having capture the flag. Turn 4 saw some Eldar Wraithguard contest the city area objective who were driven back by the Terminators in Turn 5 with the help of all my remaining air support. The game ended up drawn 1-1 on victory conditions and drawn on victory points. Counting both sides only 5 of the 18 ground formations that participated in the game were still above half strength. Despite my best efforts I could not wipe out any of the three Wraithguard units, although my Raptor packs did shadow them late in the game to make it hard for them to rally.

The game against Marines was one of those games where I just could not get onto the front foot to get into the game. Early on in the game my tanks were smashed by the Marine tanks and both my Warhounds went down, one against Terminators and one to a Thunderhawk borne assault. My own Terminator assault achieved nothing as I could not win initiative at any point so things began to snowball with most of my units breaking and this was capped of by my Thunderhawk gunship with both Raptor packs onboard getting itself shot down whilst trying to stem the tide. The Marines could by this stage totally ignore the Terror Claws arrival and it was game over in the third turn with the Marines Winning convincingly 2-0 on victory conditions.

From here I plan on playing a different Night Lords List to try things from another angle. The list at the moment feels o.k, but it would be interesting to hear of anyone else having a play with the list to provide some feedback. I do have possible addition to the “We have come for you” rule I can bring in which would give the Night Lords an extra point of hackdown if they win an assault but again I would like to see what others might think regarding the list as it is at the moment.

Another thing I discovered in these games was that I have one profile incorrect in the army reference section. The Night Lords Terminators seem to be missing (Assault Weapons) MW, EA(+1) from their power weapons. This will alongside the rule amendment in my previous post will appear in the next list update which will be released mid-late 2018. Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: Night Lords v0.3
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:24 am 
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Thanks for the update. How would you say the list is feeling in comparison to the other Chaos lists and what positives vs negatives does it have?

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 Post subject: Re: Night Lords v0.3
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:53 am 
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At the moment the list is feeling like the Night Lords which is important. It has Raptors as a core choice, it has access to the Thunderhawk, it has mobility to pick the enemy away piece by piece, it favours unfair fights and keeping a broken enemy broken but it cannot it most cases stand up to a head on engagement.

Pros
- Flexibility in core army choices depending on what style of army you want. Possible to focus entirely on Raptor packs if desired.

- Access to a Thunderhawk Gunship, I have found putting two Raptor Packs inside is a winner (most of the time…).

- Terror Claws provide another thorn inside the opponent’s rear area, ability to put down a blast marker on an enemy unit upon them entering the battlefield combines well with a timed assault from another Night Lords.

- Good mobility in the list means the Night Lords are often in a position to threaten objectives or weak/broken units.

- Best used to hit the opponent piece by piece, Night Lords in their own against enemies with lots of blast markers or are broken.

Cons
- No Daemons or Daemon Engines. And not much in the way of Fearless units seen in many of the other Chaos Lists.

- Less army list choices when compared to other Chaos Lists.

- No dedicated artillery choices.

- With the exception of the Reaver Titan the Night Lords really do not have a lot to bludgeon the enemy. They also do not much capability of destroying enemy War Engines.

- Night Lords themselves are fairly fragile and cannot withstand nowhere near the punishment that most other Chaos lists or Space Marine lists (as another comparison) can absorb.

Currently I believe there is a balance between pros and cons but it is probably too early to tell if this list is too powerful/not powerful enough and again it would be great to hear any comments from anyone who has had a go at the list.


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