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Thousand Sons 6.0

 Post subject: Re: Thousand Sons 6.0
PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2016 6:54 pm 
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Ginger wrote:
I totally accept that changing the 4+RA armour would be a 'brave' action that would need a total retest, which is highly unlikely at this point.


Yeah and because it would effect the Black Legion list it is not my call to make. And Steve54 has enough games under his belt with the Uk Thousand sons that he knows all about it.

Ginger wrote:
Changing to the E-UK version is perhaps more likely but also a 'brave' choice. The point I was trying to make was that these factors are additional buffs to a list that is already better than many according to the E-UK stats. Daemonic Pact is worth 25 points, but in a list that lacks MW I suggest that the extra attack is possibly worth 30-40 points.


The Design Concept of Neal was most likely to put a "Librarian" in every formation. But without the BC Weapon.

Ginger wrote:
One small point, I think the above list is under costed by 150 points because each Rubric formation needs 6x Dreadclaws costing 30 points rather than only 5 points. However a Doomwing formation can be dropped with little impact.


That being said brings up the idea to pay 10 points per dreadclaw.

Ole

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 Post subject: Re: Thousand Sons 6.0
PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2016 6:56 pm 
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I wouldn't read too much into the Epic UK win rate given that TK sons seems to be an army played almost exclusively by top tier players; Steve54, Mike T, Dave T, TinyTim, Consulavenging etc. It's not padded out the way say biel tann is by the likes of ginger and I damaging the win rate!

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 Post subject: Re: Thousand Sons 6.0
PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2016 7:04 pm 
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StevekCole wrote:
I wouldn't read too much into the Epic UK win rate given that TK sons seems to be an army played almost exclusively by top tier players; Steve54, Mike T, Dave T, TinyTim, Consulavenging etc. It's not padded out the way say biel tann is by the likes of ginger and I damaging the win rate!

;D

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 Post subject: Re: Thousand Sons 6.0
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 1:56 am 
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I am not entirely sure about that assertion.

The site records 23 TK lists, of which those players have used 12.
If you exclude these top four players from the results, this gives four other 'standard' players who have used the E-UK list 11 times. If you also exclude the same top four players and Richard Laking from their games, these 'standard' people have played 30 games against 19 other 'standard' people (excluding a bye) and 17 other races, and these 'standard' players have the following stats:-
Wins . . . . 15 or 50%
Draws . . . . 5 or 17%
Losses . . . 10 or 33%

IMHO these stats still suggest that the list is better than many and probably a tad overpowered. And thus I stand by my concern about adding further buffs in the net-EA list.


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 Post subject: Re: Thousand Sons 6.0
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 1:43 pm 
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Well I left off Dan1314 who's a really strong player (on a 50% win rate )and represents another 11 of those games. Lastly, on the less damn less and statistics front. I'm not entirely sure tk sons, even with those top players using them have only won a single tournament

I'd say they're good but certainly not broken. Epic uk black legion are for me a stronger chaos army (slightly weaker in assaults but scouts, more variation in deployment, and a broader selection of excellent war engines).

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 Post subject: Re: Thousand Sons 6.0
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 5:02 pm 
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LoL, I have been saying that for years (ask Steve54) :)
And even if you exclude Dan, you still end up with high winning stats for the E-UK list.
So IMHO adding further buffs to the current Net-EA list is yet another instance of 'power-creep'.
However I have repeated myself too much.


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 Post subject: Re: Thousand Sons 6.0
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 5:05 pm 
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Ginger wrote:
So IMHO adding further buffs to the current Net-EA list is yet another instance of 'power-creep'.
However I have repeated myself too much.

no .., no you haven't, mate. keep on the good fight 8)

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 Post subject: Re: Thousand Sons 6.0
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 6:26 pm 
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Ginger, totally agree tk sons don't need to be made any better! I guess we'll just have to see how our league game goes before definitive judgement is passed ;-)

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 Post subject: Re: Thousand Sons 6.0
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 7:34 pm 
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StevekCole wrote:
Ginger, totally agree tk sons don't need to be made any better! I guess we'll just have to see how our league game goes before definitive judgement is passed ;-)


"any better" is luckily not the same as needs to be toned down. I agree with you that this list does not become stronger. It is all about getting the points costs right.

Noteable would be to bring the Points for the Rubric Formation form 275 to 300 to pay for the MW. This would get a impact on list building as well.

What do you thing?

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 Post subject: Re: Thousand Sons 6.0
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 2:00 am 
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Battle report done and up..version 6.1.2

viewtopic.php?f=84&t=31923

Quick question OLE..is the 6.1.2 list developmental?

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 Post subject: Re: Thousand Sons 6.0
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 8:44 am 
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PFE200 wrote:
Battle report done and up..version 6.1.2

viewtopic.php?f=84&t=31923

Quick question OLE..is the 6.1.2 list developmental?


I would assume so, since I heard nothing else.


Thanks for the report.

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 Post subject: Re: Thousand Sons 6.0
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 9:56 am 
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btw way are you asking? Did something change for you?

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 Post subject: Re: Thousand Sons 6.0
PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2016 2:41 am 
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BATTLE REPORT UP..

viewtopic.php?f=84&t=31946


Ole wrote:
btw way are you asking? Did something change for you?

Ole


I was looking at taking the list to a Tournament and I was confirming if it was still developmental, Since the TO does allow developmental list...

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 Post subject: Re: Thousand Sons 6.0
PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2016 6:49 am 
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I was recently comparing this list to the EpicUK one, and am curious about the differences between the Sorceror/ Cabal in the two lists. With no change in points the Sorceror seems to have had a very nice upgrade, both with the EA +1 MW mentioned above, and also through gaining RA (which the Cabal of Sorcerors replaces with an invulnerable save- usually much worse). They NetEA Sorceror doesn't automatically gain Daemonic Pact as the Cabal does, but I still see this as a significant improvement.

Also, although I know this is a generic Chaos unit, but why is the Devastation Cruiser as cheap as it is?
At 150pts it is shoulder to shoulder with the Lunar Cruiser, which has no transport capacity, the Kill Kroozer, which has no transport and a single variable blast shot, the Wraith Ship which has no transport capacity and must choose between a blast or pin-point attack, and the Dark Eldar Corsair which has a weaker blast and must choose between the pin-point attack and transport.
The Chaos player does have to pay for the Dreadclaws or Thunderhawks, but so does every other faction (aside from Space Marines, who sacrifice their Rhinos).

I know that units are costed according to the list they're in, and therefore some will argue I can't compare the Devastation to other Spacecraft, but the ability to drop 20 stands' worth of 4+ RA troops, at a strat rating of 5 and able to summon daemons is really as good as it gets.


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 Post subject: Re: Thousand Sons 6.0
PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2016 6:54 am 
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Completely agree Geep.

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