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[EXPERIMENTAL] Lost and the damned redux v0.2

 Post subject: Re: [EXPERIMENTAL] Lost and the damned redux v0.1
PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 7:16 pm 
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The marines will auto rally and remove half the blast markers in the interim they also have higher SR and will most likely be able to move out of sustain range or los entirely....or shoot back....., a guard infantry company is 250 points, damn straight they should be broken by two rounds of shooting by an anti-infantry war engine.... no point preserving grotz for assault purposes if the rest of the warband is dead...

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 Post subject: Re: [EXPERIMENTAL] Lost and the damned redux v0.1
PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 7:19 pm 
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I agre with you Kyuss. That is when you are facing one questor.

When you are facing 6 and they are all performing that move at the end of turn 1, winning inititative will not help you, nor praying your dark gods (are there any bright gods?).

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 Post subject: Re: [EXPERIMENTAL] Lost and the damned redux v0.1
PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 7:23 pm 
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LordotMilk wrote:
Better for a tournament environment does not mean that more colourful lists are bad for tournaments.

No it doesn't.
Quote:
No one will argue that Chess isn't easier to manage for tournaments than Magic:the Gathering, for example.

I've no idea what this has to do with list dvelopment.

Quote:
A good example of my point is the treatment DKoK (which you seem to have fondness for) received. I like Centaurs and Trojans, and I do not think they are unbalanced in the NetEA list. EUk streamlined these units into one. That's fine balance wise, makes it easier to manage. I would not support it as a change on the NetEA list.

That should only be a problem for you if you were to come to an Epic-UK event. You are free to use any list you like and I reiterate you can even take an E-UK list and change whatever you dislike to whatever you do like.
Even if NetEA wanted to make that change you could just change it back if you prefer.
YOUR ALLOWED TO DO THAT, IT'S STATED IN THE RULE BOOK.

Quote:
Note that I'd rather we didnt discuss EUK lists here. My point was that I wish that if NetEA redesigns LatD (or an offshoot) then we tackle the matter in a straightforward and open manner, and we don't limit ourselves to a simple rince and streamlining of the existing list, which I had pointed out as being a typical EUk process (note that this is stated principle of EUk development, as written in the design notes of your codexes).


Then don't bring them up, simples tchh.
The list is in the NetEA section but as you have already been told it is not replacing the original list or re-designing it ,it is possibly an off-shoot list. So why should things be changed in this list for it to be full of different stats to it's parent list.


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 Post subject: Re: [EXPERIMENTAL] Lost and the damned redux v0.1
PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 7:24 pm 
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How on earth will you so out activate an opponent that 6 questors can do that un interfered ? Like the ork warband stat this makes no sense. Can you actually any of the queries put to you?

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 Post subject: Re: [EXPERIMENTAL] Lost and the damned redux v0.1
PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 7:28 pm 
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So if takes two questors to *break* a formation.... against my standard build you'd have lost two other unactivated ones to terminator assaults...... plus I have pred annihilators and warhounds of my own to do the same thing as your questors....

8 questors are nasty but in a SR2 army they aren't going to be running around at will without being targeted first.... almost every othrr force is going first or at least has an even chance of doing so..... if someone turned up a tourney with a list with SR2, no AA, no supcom and 8 very easy to kill BTS formations it would be like all my christmasses had come at once ;)

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 Post subject: Re: [EXPERIMENTAL] Lost and the damned redux v0.1
PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 7:29 pm 
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I can proxy this build, I will play it and post a batrep this week

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 Post subject: Re: [EXPERIMENTAL] Lost and the damned redux v0.1
PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 7:34 pm 
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Steve54 wrote:
How on earth will you so out activate an opponent that 6 questors can do that un interfered ? Like the ork warband stat this makes no sense. Can you actually any of the queries put to you?


Hypothesis: List at beginning of thread which allows for balanced 6 Questor lineups at 3k points.

6 Questors, 5 Covens with some AA, 2 Doomwing squadrons (roughly)

13 activations

Thesis: Doubling covens, harassing doomwings, 6 questors advancing.

Enemy play out his battleplan, which could honetly be anything, but lets' take a typical ork all-comers 3k lineup of 2 big warbands, 2 big blitz brigades with mekboyz (soopaguns), a stompa + supa stompa formation, and 2 loaded Landas.

Result: orks are going to have a hard time. If they land their air assaults turn one they will get that part of the army destroyed immediately, after removing 2 threats. If they dont, chances are there wont be much of an army left when they do land, except for the stompas.

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 Post subject: Re: [EXPERIMENTAL] Lost and the damned redux v0.1
PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 7:37 pm 
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How is that a typical ork list? Looks to be an ork list built to support your argument

I could argue that terminators are useless by taking an all skimmer list

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 Post subject: Re: [EXPERIMENTAL] Lost and the damned redux v0.1
PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 7:39 pm 
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Steve54 wrote:
How is that a typical ork list? Looks to be an ork list built to support your argument

I could argue that terminators are useless by taking an all skimmer list


I took the very successful (in tournaments) Joe Jephson list as reference, to humour you.

But honestly, Robert's SL list is going to have a lot of trouble too and so is your latest evolution on Eldar air assault, to take high achieving tournament lists you know very well.

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 Post subject: Re: [EXPERIMENTAL] Lost and the damned redux v0.1
PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 7:49 pm 
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Well we can find out on thursday steve, to make it fair I'll use eldar and you can take the questor overload list

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 Post subject: Re: [EXPERIMENTAL] Lost and the damned redux v0.1
PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 8:01 pm 
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dptdexys wrote:
The list is in the NetEA section but as you have already been told it is not replacing the original list or re-designing it ,it is possibly an off-shoot list. So why should things be changed in this list for it to be full of different stats to it's parent list.


That would actually be a good point if it were true.

However, Steve has stated in the past that he wished LatD be split in two, a move which I think is great.

Also, the title of the thread is not Chaos Engines or some such, but LatD redux, indicating that this is not only a proposed offshoot but an evolution of the LatD which, at the moment, is untouched, but when it will be considered for removal, it will be far too late to bring up DE review.

Additionally, MikeT has confirmed that reviewing Daemon engines was not out of the question, and has not stated your argument.

All of the above made me believe that this was an open discussion on a completely experimental list and where everything was on the table. However, after exactly one post bringing up some comments in a pretty neutral tone , Steve stepped in to state how wrong my comments were. I disagreed and here we are.

Are forum members comments still welcome, or shall we relabel the thread (closed development)?

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 Post subject: Re: [EXPERIMENTAL] Lost and the damned redux v0.1
PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 8:02 pm 
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kyussinchains wrote:
Well we can find out on thursday steve, to make it fair I'll use eldar and you can take the questor overload list


Sounds fantastic!

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 Post subject: Re: [EXPERIMENTAL] Lost and the damned redux v0.1
PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 8:19 pm 
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LordotMilk wrote:
dptdexys wrote:
The list is in the NetEA section but as you have already been told it is not replacing the original list or re-designing it ,it is possibly an off-shoot list. So why should things be changed in this list for it to be full of different stats to it's parent list.


That would actually be a good point if it were true.

However, Steve has stated in the past that he wished LatD be split in two, a move which I think is great.

Also, the title of the thread is not Chaos Engines or some such, but LatD redux, indicating that this is not only a proposed offshoot but an evolution of the LatD which, at the moment, is untouched, but when it will be considered for removal, it will be far too late to bring up DE review.

Additionally, MikeT has confirmed that reviewing Daemon engines was not out of the question, and has not stated your argument.

All of the above made me believe that this was an open discussion on a completely experimental list and where everything was on the table. However, after exactly one post bringing up some comments in a pretty neutral tone , Steve stepped in to state how wrong my comments were. I disagreed and here we are.

Are forum members comments still welcome, or shall we relabel the thread (closed development)?


Listen, this thread is devolving into a "he said-they said" confrontation. In addition, justified or not, the above snarky responses are contributing to the ill will which is not constructive all round.

Looks like the list as it stands is going to be tested around the Questor maxing question, which is a good thing. Everything at this point has been theory-hammer. Also, I need to point out that without ANY sort of batraps getting posted by you on these topics, what you say is not going to get much credence, ok?

So how about this?=>
Post up a variation of the above list more to your liking with what you think thses engines should look like and I'll help you test them, ok mate? I obviously have NO relationship with EpicUK and am a completely neutral party. If the list is demonstrably better then in whole or in part then there's something real to debate.

sound good?

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 Post subject: Re: [EXPERIMENTAL] Lost and the damned redux v0.1
PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 8:26 pm 
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jimmyzimms wrote:

So how about this?=>
Post up a variation of the above list more to your liking with what you think thses engines should look like and I'll help you test them, ok mate? I obviously have NO relationship with EpicUK and am a completely neutral party. If the list is demonstrably better then in whole or in part then there's something real to debate.

sound good?


Of course it sounds great. ;)

Would the chain of command (read AC-ERC) be in support of this, however?

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 Post subject: Re: [EXPERIMENTAL] Lost and the damned redux v0.1
PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 8:43 pm 
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LordotMilk wrote:
jimmyzimms wrote:

So how about this?=>
Post up a variation of the above list more to your liking with what you think thses engines should look like and I'll help you test them, ok mate? I obviously have NO relationship with EpicUK and am a completely neutral party. If the list is demonstrably better then in whole or in part then there's something real to debate.

sound good?


Of course it sounds great. ;)

Would the chain of command (read AC-ERC) be in support of this, however?



;D

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