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Emperor's Children v4.0

 Post subject: Re: Emperor's Children v4.0
PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 6:43 pm 
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Dave wrote:
2 more games from Apoc, Kyuss and/or PFE,


Happy to vassal a game if anyone would like to play a playtest (will see if i can arrange one with mikeT).
Extra available for vassal next two weeks in general.

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 Post subject: Re: Emperor's Children v4.0
PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 8:41 am 
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Dave wrote:
Steeds of Slaanesh are pretty much your best summoning option so long as the target formation isn't in cover (even then, I'd risk a dangerous terrain test). To make the other two lesser daemons viable maybe have them cost 2 to summon and give them infiltrate to make them worth it at 2?

The Land Raiders and Predators are slightly better than the BL counter-parts, on paper. 5 point unit bumps, or a 25 point formation bump would even it out, or we could leave it because they're taking up a support slot now.

I think testing has shown that the Hell-Knight and Hell-Scourge could do with a price bump, maybe +90 a unit instead of +75?


IMHO from my use of this list in my local game group over the last year I've found:

For steeds a cost of 2 would be justifiable with infiltrate or even a speed bump to 30 or 35cm without infiltrate. Steeds of slaanesh are meant to be extremely fast after all. A base speed bump instead of infiltrate could be overpowered in a bike unit with an icon bearer though so would need testing.

I love the Land Raider and Predators in their current form but my opponents and I have never felt them to be under costed. As stated they take up a valuable support slot that prevents spam.

The Hell Scourge is definitely under priced in my mind, 90pts would be a better cost as they are extremely lethal and quite survivable. The Hell Knight on the other hand I've found quite well priced atm due to their shorter range and lower FF stats. Both statistically and in my personal games I've found that the MW does not make up for the fewer shots compared to the Scourge. I have not used the Hell Strider yet, mainly due to the Predator being a better buy that doesn't take up a WE slot.

The only other issue I have with this list that you haven't mentioned in the price of the Noise Marine retinue. 300pts for 6 stands without a Lord is extremely expensive, especially when compared to the price of upgrading a Retinue instead. I understand that this was done due to the possible combo of this unit with a fearless THawk but the result has been that when I ran them in Rhino's they were not even remotely cost effective. There must be a way of balancing this unit so that it can be used both in Rhinos and THawks without being over or under powered.

Other than the above I find this list well balanced and good fun to use. This is just my 2 cents, take it how you may. Apologies for the lack of batreps to back these statements up, I'm awful at remembering to do them :(

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 Post subject: Re: Emperor's Children v4.0
PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 1:18 pm 
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moridin wrote:
Apologies for the lack of batreps to back these statements up, I'm awful at remembering to do them :(

These are good points, Moridin. It's not too late to get your experiences on the record though, as you can see we still need batreps.

My position is that the scourge indeed needs a price increase - I was leaning towards 100 points each, but that's because it's more of an even number.

The other two points that Dave brings up are well taken, but I can be convinced either way (honestly I've never considered the summoning issue - although "must-haves" and "always taken/summoned" are red flags in my mind)

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 Post subject: Re: Emperor's Children v4.0
PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 1:19 pm 
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I'll try and get some batreps in for the list in the next couple of weeks :)

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 Post subject: Re: Emperor's Children v4.0
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 3:59 am 
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Hi All

just wanted to let you know there another report for EC in this link.
viewtopic.php?f=84&t=31059

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 Post subject: Re: Emperor's Children v4.0
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 12:24 pm 
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Any chance you guys can get a couple of games in against a NetEA apptoved list to help?

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 Post subject: Re: Emperor's Children v4.0
PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2016 2:55 am 
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Hi Dave

We will try too, any particular approve list that we should play against??

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 Post subject: Re: Emperor's Children v4.0
PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2016 3:09 am 
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Roboshadow wrote:
any particular approve list that we should play against??



If possible, one of the "core" lists, like IG, orcs, eldar.

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 Post subject: Re: Emperor's Children v4.0
PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 5:41 am 
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Hi ALL..

Mange to get two games in.. one against Steel Legion and the other Beil-tan, over in the battle section.. :)

viewtopic.php?f=84&t=31093

Both games the Hell Scourge was costed at 90 points..The EC list is the same over both games and is more infantry based. Me and PFE100 will aim for another game this Tuesday and try another list that not so Infantry based.. ;D

Thanks for reading..

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 Post subject: Re: Emperor's Children v4.0
PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 5:03 pm 
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Thanks man! Exactly what we're looking for!

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 Post subject: Re: Emperor's Children v4.0
PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 8:50 am 
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captPiett wrote:
Thanks man! Exactly what we're looking for!


No Problems.... you own us a beer or two :D :D .

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 Post subject: Re: Emperor's Children v4.0
PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 7:44 pm 
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We'll see about sending some back with Onyx. Australia's pretty small right? You guys are probably right next door to one another.

One more from Kal and 2 more from Kyuss or Apoc and we should be good for an initial vote.

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 Post subject: Re: Emperor's Children v4.0
PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 11:51 pm 
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Yeah only about 4000+Km's between us... ;D ;D , just stroll in the park.. :D

We manage another game too...

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 Post subject: Re: Emperor's Children v4.0
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 5:41 pm 
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Emperors Children vs. House Lakar Knight Household (04-10-2016)

Took the EC out to play today to try a Bike Formation in a Thunderhawk as the Capt requested I try it out. He might not get much from this report on that aspect but a fights a fights. I am really liking the diversity of the list and the tough choices you need to make, banging my head, saying why cant I have all the toys. But it really makes you focus your list and how comfortable you are playing a certain style. My opponent was Shawn who wanted to try house the knight list.

CSM Retinue (8), Icon Bearer, 4 Rhinos, Warlord, Stalker
CSM Retinue (8, Icon Bearer, 4 Rhinos, Demonic Pact
CSM Retinue (8), Icon Bearer
Armoured Company, 3 Land Raiders, 2 Predators
Chosen (4), 2 Rhinos, Demonic Pact
EC Terminators (5)
Bike Company (8)
Knight Pack 4 Hell Scourge
Hell Talons (2)
Chaos Thunderhawk
4 in the lesser demon pool (plus two from the demonic pact, total 6).

Knight Household-House Lakar

3 Castellens
4 Paladins
6 Lancers with Baron
3 AA guns with 3 Transports
3 Errants plus 1 Senechal
3 Crusaders
3 Paladins plus 1 Senechal
2 Marauder Bombers

Deployment was as followed on the picture. In reserve were the Terminators, Bikes in Thunderhawk. I garrisoned the Chosen to the left in the fields with the small houses.

EC won the initiative and took the first turn. They promptly marched the right flank CSM to the ruined buildings for cover. The Paladins with Senechal move forward fired at the CSM hiding in the woods no kills. I doubled my Hell Scourge and fired several rounds (12 shots in total) at the Paladins on my right did no wounds but put a BM down. He moved his Crusaders forward and took more shots at my scourge, no wounds just a BM. I doubled my Armoured Company and fired everything at the Paladins w/seneschal caused two Disrupt hits and one more BM (3 BMS in total). A little upset the errants moved forward and plasmablasted my AC killing one LR only. A lot of action on this side, then I sent in my Hell Talons and dropped barrages and shot away at the Paladins w/Senechal (I don’t like paladins), causing one wound and some more blast markers. They weren’t quite broken yet, but close. On the left flank he moved his Paladins along with the tree line against the road and killed two Predators that broke the Armoured Company and they retreated along the road out of harm’s way. This was a tough side to fight I had lots of cover but needed to move to fire and thus I would expose myself. My chosen in the field with the houses activated and did some shooting at the BTS unit (6 strong lancers unit), no wounds but a blast marker. I doubled my CSM with stalker unit forward to lay fire at the Paladins on the right flank, causing another blast marker. He fired away with his 6 strong lancer units on the left after advancing a little at my chosen causing one wound (thanks cover). I then did what seemed like a good idea after calculating who would be in a firefight as support and what they needed along with my armour save and my to hit rolls I felt comfortable. I sent in my Thunderhawk loaded with bikes to attack the Crusaders on the right flank occupying a hill. I had 8 3+ CC attacks along with 2 4+ FF attacks against 6 5+ CC and 4 5+ Firefight attacks. All things being equal I figured I would win by a little. The dice were not kind 8 attacks 3 hits and none from the Thunderhawk. Against 4 hits plus 2 from support though I made some saves I lost and in the final roll lost enough to wipe the Bikes out and the Thunderhawk retreated (thanks for fearless) out of harm’s way. I advanced my CSM on the left to the front of the woods and fired at the 6 strong lancer unit, another blast marker. He then broke the unit with the castellans who advanced forward layed barrage on my CSM. They retreated behind the woods.
Nothing on the knight side was broken but did cause serious damage to the paladins on my right.

Turn 2 I teleported the Terminators near the AA guns on the blitz objective. I won the initiative and assaulted the AA guns, winning that pretty easily. I didn’t retain the initiative this time. The Errants charged my Hell Scourge for some CC fighting. Let’s say it went well for the EC after the Errants took two wounds from HTH to the Scourge 1 wound then supporting fire killed another another Errant the Scourge won big after the roll, destroying the remaining Errants and causing the Senechal to flee (being fearless). On my turn I sent the LR and predator forward (they rallied last turn) and opened fire on the Paladins on the right they also claimed the cross fire from the terminators this caused the knights to lose one model, I then moved the Scourge forward a bit and fired away at the paladins on the right and claimed more crossfire. The Hell Talons came and shot them also claiming more crossfire this promptly broke the Paladins and they retreated like the cowards they are to their rear to the far right in the woods. On the left it was cat and mouse and cover, the chosen being protected by the village kept them alive. On the right maurauders came in and shot some terminators killing one. Then the paladins on the left fired and at them and broke. The terminators stayed put as they were safe for now. On the left the 6 strong lancer advanced forward and fired at the CSM with Warlord laying down 4 blast markers. The left was in dire need of assistance to take down some knights. I advanced the CSM with warlord on the left towards the 6 strong lancer and layed some blast markers on them. The Castellans fired but only put down a blast markers on a chosen unit.

So at the end of turn two, his AA guns gone and knight errants gone, his Paladins on the left were broke (but rallied), the right was looking good, the left was the issue. Everything of mine rallied as did his.

Turn 3
EC won the roll. I promptly took a risk at assaulting his Paladins on the left with my Terminators, I chose firefight not realizing I only had 4 attacks. The paladins hit twice I hit all four times. He promptly failed two saves, killing one paldin I made my saves. I at the end of the roll I won by enough to destroy the unit. Lucky that’s for sure. I decided to retain the initiative and sent in the Hell Talons to bomb the lancers on the left. Causing two wounds killing a knight, he was down to four knights now (killed one the previous turn) plus the blast markers started to pile up. He tried failed the initiative twice on his SC on the right. On the left he was down to castellans and lancers. He advanced his Crusaders on the right near the objective on my half to deny me, though the unit had two blast markers on it. He then doubled his paladins on the right towards my terminators and shot and broke them, denying me the objective on his table edge. Since I had more activations left then he did. I was able to destroy his Paladins on the right with a combo of Armoured company, CSM and Hell Scourges all their shots and piled up the BMs to make them break giving me the objective. On the left I was able to activate and break the lancer unit with cross fire galore from the chosen, CSMs and Hell Talons. The CSM with Warlord advanced and took the objective on my board edge and the other CSM was able to take the objective on my half on the left. This gave me the 1 VP for all objectives on my half. As we ended I also had TSNP (no unbroken formations on my half).

I was mildly surprised at the result, but I think once I got into crossfire, his knights started dropping. The terminators on the table edge proved the difference on that side able to provide cross fire to basically anybody firing at the Paladins on the right. Also some massive CC wins that destroyed two knight units outright definitely helps. Again the bike formation in Thawk, not sure thought it is 3+ in CC vs 4+ for marines it has that going for it. But in this battle I don’t think I had a valid target I could beat right away. Maybe if I waited till turn two I would have used them a little different or even turn three to clean up some units still lingering. Not enough of a playtest for them this game to make a valid argument for or against. I also didn’t summon any demons this game as I didn’t want to get into CC with the chosen, I could have summoned them to bolster the unit but that really didn’t come into play.

Very fun and tactical game.


Emperors Children 2
Knights 0

Thanks Kal


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 Post subject: Re: Emperor's Children v4.0
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 12:17 am 
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Thanks Kal!
I'm not surprised that the bikes didn't do well against knights. Air assaults against all that cc power tend not to go well. I took Raven Guard against dwarf supreme's Knights one time, and even with the veteran MW EAs, I was basically sacrificing a formation per assault. I'd break the knight formation, but lose the t-hawk and all the dudes. Obviously chaos bikes don't have the MW to boost them.

I'm glad you got them into combat though. Nice report.

Thanks also to Roboshadow and company! If this list ever gets to an approval vote, I'll have to send beers to multiple locations...

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