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Chaos Squats Army List

 Post subject: Re: Chaos Squats Army List
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 8:26 am 
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eypyeash wrote:
Anyway, maybe you can use this for something...


Definately. Happy to festoon the next revision with your artwork if you provide it :)

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 Post subject: Re: Chaos Squats Army List
PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 7:27 pm 
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Mmm... well, we don't exactly "fit" each others' ideas of visual style, though a handful of pics would work alright (always liked the idea of daemonically infused clones and machines the style of the Forgeworld war engine revamps for Khorne, so more biological than whirling gears). I could probably whip some stuff up based on yours and Apoc's models tho. Guess we'll see, since I'm bad at sticking to deadlines. :D


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 Post subject: Re: Chaos Squats Army List
PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 12:08 am 
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eypyeash

You may as well show your ideas as well, as much of what I do with a list that has no history is take ideas from the community. If it is cool and looks like it will fit, it may just get some stats :)

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 Post subject: Re: Chaos Squats Army List
PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 9:26 am 
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Yep id love to seem more sketches. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Chaos Squats Army List
PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 9:41 am 
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Looking to play these guys this week if I can manage some people to play against :)

I have been reviewing the list and changes planned after this week are as follows:

- Sentinels to be reduced to 250 points
- Death Dealers to go to CC5+ and reduced to +150 points (transport option for Obsidian Guard)
- Lord of Battle to be renamed Battlelord in this list. Will lose Fearless, and drop to CC4+. Cost to be reduced to 325 points each.
- Adopt artwork from eypyeash into the play document - is more coming?

Reason for the changes
1. In comparison to Terminators, Sentinels lose out in many respects (less CC, no teleport, worse Initiative and Strategy Rating). Their usefulness is limited so a large reduction in cost was necessary. In comparison, Chaos Terminators look to be the far superior choice even at the 25 points difference.

2. Death Dealers and Battlelord are to represent the Khorne Engines before a Daemon is bound to them. Hence the loss of Fearless on both, and the worse CC to represent their mechanical nature.

I will apply the changes after I get the game played with the current list

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 Post subject: Re: Chaos Squats Army List
PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 11:29 pm 
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Further thoughts:

- Sentinels at 250 points do not sit right with me so I am going to place them at 275 points for their reduction instead. The fact that they can garrison was the reason for this decision

- Support and Slave Formations. Currently they are 'one may be taken per...' and 'two may be taken per...' in that order.
To encourage the selection of other formations I am placing forward this proposal:

a. Move Road Warriors into Core formations - makes them more of a viable choice
b. Change the selections for Support and Slave formations to be
Support - 'one may be taken per...'
Slaves - 'three may be taken per...'

c. A final idea along with the above is to move the Damburi to the Slave formations to help make them more of a viable choice

Ideas or feedback?

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 Post subject: Re: Chaos Squats Army List
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 6:04 am 
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Other changes for consideration:

Chaos Squat Detachment : Increase to 225 points or make Vedaj a Transport upgrade again.
Zhatan transport - Reduce to +75 points as an upgrade for 2

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 Post subject: Re: Chaos Squats Army List
PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 4:26 am 
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One of the concerns on the list build that I had was the amount of Gladiators in Zigganooks (War Engines) you could take in a list. On my latest build, I decided to try it and fielded 6xZigganooks and 1xZeppelin in a game.

The battle provided some good insights to a build that would otherwise seem monstrous. At the end of the day we came out with the following thoughts on the new designs I was proposing:

- Gladiators and Large Mutants will be purchased as one formation (not as an upgrade re: Large Mutants) and will consist of 5 Gladiators and 3 Large mutants for 150 points. Only upgrade will be "may be transported in a Zigganook purchased from the War Engines Section"

- Zigganoooks will be priced at 150 points, and be placed into the War Engine section. They will also be reduced to a speed of 30cm. Effectively these become an Independant DC2 War Engine choice - we found that with the ease that these could be broken, these as a 150 point selection were not a concern on their own. The major concern addressed is that they cannot be taken independently outside of the one-third War Engine allowance.

Further considerations:
I have a concern over the survivability of the 600+ point War Engines as they do not have shields and are practically naked to TK weapons and are open to MW without any prep. For their points, I am going to look at balancing some higher DC rating against their weaponry to see if I can make these more durable while being balanced to other similar costed War Engines.

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 Post subject: Re: Chaos Squats Army List
PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 5:00 am 
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i think the problem there is that virtually all the other high DC engines have some sort of additional protection built into them
imperial titans have void shields, and gargants have powerfields, while eldar titans have holofields
the outliers here are the tau (though the manta does have its 5+ invun) and the tyranids (though they have cheaper DC, and regenerate)
the concern is that increasing the DC also increases its ability to firefight/CC and that is a sort of dangerous balancing act
but yeah, maybe the LoBs and Kollossii should have power fields or something
i know i was umming and ahhing over these things when tweaking with the corrupted leviathan in my list (though in the end i decided it was probably cheap enough that its survivability wasnt a huge concern)

the other concern with having the gladiator formations being that cheap is it does allow for pretty high activation count armies. perhaps there needs to be a "one per chaos squat detachment"
by the current pricing, the mutant is worth 25 points more than the gladiator, so are you suggesting that 8 gladiators would only be worth 75 points? (i thought we where worried that the gladiators where potentially too cheap, but compared to the old list, buying 5 gladiators 3 large mutants and a zigganook is now 50 points cheaper, and two seperate activations!)

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 Post subject: Re: Chaos Squats Army List
PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 6:07 am 
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No, 5 Gladiators and 3 mutants will be 150 points. The Zigganook will be an additional 150 points. Hence, I have kept the same costing yet reduced the effectiveness off the formation with less armour and one less MW attack. I have also reduced their movement via the Zigganook. At 300 points, many other armies have better options for probably the same or less.

150 point formations that consist of 8 units with no shooting and no leader. If you take them without the Ziggs, then you are more than welcome as they have nothing extra to offer a General. They may be cheaper and give you more activations, yet they are completely useless unless in base to base contact with an enemy formation. Therefore I do not see them as an issue.

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 Post subject: Re: Chaos Squats Army List
PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 8:26 am 
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Jaggedtoothgrin wrote:
the other concern with having the gladiator formations being that cheap is it does allow for pretty high activation count armies.


Further to this concern, I worked it out.

The max activations one could get by min-maxing their points is 18 activations.

This may seem like a lot till you consider the following:

4-5 of those formations move at a speed of 10cm (as vehicles will now be an extra cost)
13 of those activations will move 15cm, and have no Leader

Both types will not be able to shoot and have no defence against air assaults.

If people really want to test this force, they are going to find it far less than competitive :)

The concern comes in with Zigganooks (x6) used with such a force (swapped out with Ludus formations). Not really competative yet a design that I do not wish to see. So leave the concern with me and I will find a way to shut it down.

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 Post subject: Re: Chaos Squats Army List
PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 12:04 am 
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Hi All

The Chaos Squat list has been updated to V1.9.2 on the first page.

There are a lot of changes - none of which will effect your collections :)

I have endeavored to promote more varied formations by moving options to other areas and increasing the ability to buy more allies from the base Core formation.

Therefore the list is quite varied and now you can make forces that incorporate any of the following:

- Full Chaos Squat Forces
- Large Chaos Squat Allied forces
- War Engine heavy forces

So there is a lot there to play test and model, so feel free to enjoy yourselves :)

If there are any concerns in costings, feel free to speak up. I have a concern myself over 1 or 2 things, yet they can be for a later discussion.

Cheers for now...

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 Post subject: Re: Chaos Squats Army List
PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 5:41 pm 
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Chaos andriods at all? apparently they were made by chaos squats, probably enough in the list already, but just saying :)

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 Post subject: Re: Chaos Squats Army List
PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 8:47 pm 
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Apocolocyntosis wrote:
Chaos andriods at all? apparently they were made by chaos squats, probably enough in the list already, but just saying :)


Yes, these were in the old Realm of Chaos books as well. Since then we have had the Necrons so I did not believe it would gain any support with so similar a unit. Also their design is in opposition to the 'look' of everything else they build.

Do you think that is a fair appraisal?

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 Post subject: Re: Chaos Squats Army List
PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 9:00 pm 
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Yep fair enough. Couldn't really see where they would fit in the list, already a lot of different infantry and a slight trend away from squat crafted khorne stuff (LoB/DDs). Although, i can see chaos squats creating and using androids/robots for manual labour, used in the same way slaves/malorcs are – but they you could proxy them within the current list.

Just came across it while researching them for a dark mech army :)

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