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Death Guard v0.5-0.6

 Post subject: Re: Death Guard v0.5-0.6
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 12:38 pm 
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Thanks again for feedback, both of you!

atension wrote:
I just like daemons. The way the list is currently stuctured with more expensive fornations its hard to justify including them and sacrificing formation count. Not that thats necessarily bad.

Ah, so not the cost-effectiveness of the demons themselves.

Regarding Zombies as Core, I think we're talking at cross-purposes, I didn't read your post as removing Plague Marines from Core, I was just asking whether you thought Zombies would grant access to Support formations.

Having thought through it some more, my initial negative reaction is reinforced. Even if they don't allow Support formations, Plague Zombies are already one of the most irritating formations in the list to play against, and removing restrictions will allow lists that simply aren't going to make for interesting games - for example eight Plague Zombie Infestations is less than half of a 3000 list, for an average of 80 Fearless bases. You could basically make it impossible for your opponent to advance out of their Deployment Zone the entire game, and regardless of effectiveness, that definitely falls into negative play experiences.

That said, I'm open to working on an additional type of Zombie formation as Core, presumably without Teleport, which could also be a place to experiment with enemy INF casualties turning into more Zombies.

For AVs, Death Guard are supposed to have fewer vehicles, but that's already represented in the list compared to Black Company, Iron Warriors and Thousand Sons where the ACs unlock Support formations. If I remember correctly, you were a fan of moving the AC and AAC formations to Core when it was done.


Terminators - yes, I think they're going to have to go back to a single statline. It seems that EA simply doesn't have the design space for 'Assault Terminators' in a useful fashion. Note that the 5+ INV and reduced price also comes with a removal of Thick Rear Armour, so they're less robust when surrounded. Plus Mounted and Walker to make them less manoeuvrable.

Steve54's original version had 3+ RA and they were just painful to try and kill, while again being just as easy to break.

Nurgling Infestation - agreed, this is one of the most successful additions to the list, in terms of fluffiness and making the formations play differently.

Defiler variants - there's no good solution. :-(
If I remove the Defilers, atension will have another fit. ;-)
If I remove the Desecrators, the list has no on-table AA, and no obvious place to put it that doesn't contradict the background pretty badly (Obliterators, for example, as their virus gets messed up by Nurgle).
If I remove the Plague Hulk, we're taking away the only Power-specific Defiler variant that is actually canon.

Plague Tower Transport - this is taken verbatim from the 'official' Stigmatus Coven list, but the wording is horrible - GUCs are listed as 16, and then in the second sentence are said to take up two spaces.

Nurgle's Rot - Yes, it's fiddly, but moving it back to being a formation-level ability means reworking the Beasts of Nurgle yet again, as they're currently balanced by having Nurgle's Rot as a unit-level ability.

For some more blue-sky thinking, changing Nurgle's Rot so that it creates Zombies would be a possibility, but in the modern background it's the Walking Pox that does that, not Nurgle's Rot. The end result of Nurgle's Rot has always been… Plaguebearers.

Sooooo. What if casualties to Nurgle's Rot formations add to the Daemon Pool? Restricted to INF casualties in assaults. This would obviously need lots of experimenting for cost, limits on how many can be converted into Lesser Daemons, formation-level vs unit-level etc. but would have the positive side effect of making Daemonic Pact more attractive.

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