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Traitor Titan Legions (TTL) v2.2 and v2.3b [Developmental]

 Post subject: Re: [Developmental] Traitor Titan Legions (TTL) v2.1
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:45 pm 
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Abetillo wrote:
Mordoten, would be happy to test it if you are interested on doing it too. How do you prefer it? With the extra point on criticals? For all of the WE or only normal in Gargants and bigger?


Now that I've been thinking about it, I'm definitely leaning towards having a 6+DC cutoff (so Reavers and larger) myself. Another thing about many smaller WE is that their Criticals kills them outright, so they're inherently fragile in that way. It would also avoid some weirdness in TTL with the Harbringer Bomber.

Would probably also be easier to get support for a rule that is less indiscriminate.

I think adding an extra damage on the critical when below half feels right, but I'm open for other solutions as well.

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 Post subject: Re: [Developmental] Traitor Titan Legions (TTL) v2.1
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:11 pm 
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Yeah, i think DC6 and upwards is a good choice. And toanswer Abetillo i'm interested in trying out the crippling damage rule as it's been worded here. This is a very good idea!

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 Post subject: Re: [Developmental] Traitor Titan Legions (TTL) v2.1
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 8:46 am 
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Had two games yesterday (and will eventually post two battle reports from them) with the proposed Crippling Damage rule. Played with a Chaos Emperor Titan and a Chaos Reaver. Lost both games (partly due to a sub-optimal list) but was really close to getting a draw both times.

The Crippling Damage rule only came into play once (on the Reaver), but didn't really have much impact when it did. But it definitely makes the bigger WE feel more vulnerable.

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 Post subject: Re: [Developmental] Traitor Titan Legions (TTL) v2.1 and v2.
PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 3:10 pm 
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top post updated

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 Post subject: Re: [Developmental] Traitor Titan Legions (TTL) v2.1 and v2.
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 1:09 pm 
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Updated the beta to the latest version, and added a poll around the Factions / Eternal Hatred rule

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 Post subject: Re: [Developmental] Traitor Titan Legions (TTL) v2.1 and v2.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 7:47 pm 
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During a recent excursion into the World Wide Web I came across some teasers for some new 3d-models that are very close to release for the "Garry's Mod" 40k community (Nurgle bless those guys). This is seriously good news for my plans to make a TTS module for Traitor Titan Legion, and for those who has 3d-printers. Had planned to do something like this myself at some point, but this just looks so much better than anything I'd be able to do!

Warplord
Image

Banelord
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Painlord
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Plaguelord
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Emperor Titan
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Chaos Reaver with Close Combat Weapons
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 Post subject: Re: [Developmental] Traitor Titan Legions (TTL) v2.2
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:02 pm 
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Post updated to v2.2. There was some discussion around implementing split fire for Battle Titans in the "Rules Amendments" section. Having thought about it some I can understand the wish to have it in E:A, but I think that train left the station a long time ago.

I continue to think that the main problem with the big titans is that they're way too tough, and thus has to cost too much for them to be a relevant choice for most lists (there are certainly exceptions). Titan lists especially don't really work.

Hopefully something like the Crippling Damage specia rule could help with that, but it might be that it will have to become even nastier before Imperial Titans are where they should be in the game. If anyone has any ideas about how to best do that I'm all ears.

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 Post subject: Re: [Developmental] Traitor Titan Legions (TTL) v2.2
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:08 am 
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Well, you know that i think that the issue is that they don't deteriorate. Just make them less sturdy means that they become closer to Warhounds and reduces their advantage to them, making them closer to Warhounds with better weapons.

But you asked for ideas, so regarding how to make them less sturdy the three i see more viable would be, to add to the half BMs, to make them when at half DCs:
-Reactor repairs only on 5+ or 6+ instead of 4+. This means that the reactor meltdown won't happen more on the first hit, but will on subsequent ones, piling up the opportunities it will go down and adding more damage each turn as the reactor is harder to repair.
- -1 to armour. The previous hits got through the armour and now it is easier to take down. Similar to the +1 in Space Marine when a location is hit a second time but fits EA's way and it is simpler.
- -1 to activations. This doesn't wear them down directly but means that they are easier to attack so they indirectly go down faster.

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 Post subject: Re: [Developmental] Traitor Titan Legions (TTL) v2.2
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:18 am 
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I like the -1 to Armour idea, the -1 on activation is actually already included (-1 initiative).

And it might be that it should kick in when at half remaining DC, and not below half as it is currently. That should make it more attractive to start hitting them, as the "reward" for doing so is easier to reach.

I also wrote some stuff in the Split Fire thread that might be worth trying out. I think it would make the big titans "feel" bigger and beefier if they were included, so it might be worth trying out... But at a higher points cost obviously. Maybe +50/75pts up from v2.2?

Depending on how it is formulated, Split Fire could make it a lot less viable to ignore the big Titans, and make them more interesting to play with.

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 Post subject: Re: Traitor Titan Legions (TTL) v2.2 and v2.3b [Developmenta
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:27 pm 
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Added v2.3 Beta to the first post. The list is starting to have a serious load of Special Rules now, but might be worth trying out at least... It would be fun to make War Engine lists more viable, and I think the biggest WE could do with some extra complexity.

Obviously very interested to hear opinions on both Split Fire and Crippling Damage (and anything else in TTL). I'll try and playtest it (or something like it) in TTL as soon as I can get some models done there.

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 Post subject: Re: Traitor Titan Legions (TTL) v2.2 and v2.3b [Developmenta
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:13 pm 
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Got a bit inspired to start assemlying TTL in TTS. Will take a while, but not for lack of assets...

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 Post subject: Re: Traitor Titan Legions (TTL) v2.2 and v2.3b [Developmenta
PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:03 am 
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Cool models, but maybe not chaotic enough in my eyes.

Mrdiealot wrote:
Re-did the Crippling Damage and Split Fire rules again, hopefully making them more readable and easier to understand. Removed the requirement for 1+ initiative.
Quote:
Crippling Damage (Playtest Version)
War Engines with a starting Damage Capacity (DC) of 6 or more that has half or less of its starting DC left suffers the following penalties :
1. Counts as having half its starting DC for determining the number of blast markers it can have before it becomes broken, and for determining how many Close Combat and/or Fire Fight dice it gets.
2. Suffers an additional -1 modifier to its armour value, and on all initiative rolls made by it or its formation.

Round all fractions down. Crippling Damage takes effect after the activation that caused it has been resolved.



I saw the new rule, and it looks effective, but i have two concerns. I am not so convinced as you that this is not enough, as I think that with what you have already a Reaver should get at least 75 points less and a Warlord 125 to compensate, and on the other side with so much zeal there is for 1+ activation armies just the -1 on activations will make your list a lot less popular and will make it harder for you to find help for developing it and get the battle reports. Second, i think those are too many mechanics there, if i were you i would keep it more simple like -1 on activations at half DC and -2 at quarter (rounding up), or -1 to armour at half DC and -2 at quarter. Or maybe go to thirds (would work nicely with Reaver's 6-4-2 DCs)

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 Post subject: Re: Traitor Titan Legions (TTL) v2.2 and v2.3b [Developmenta
PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:39 pm 
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[url]Cool models, but maybe not chaotic enough in my eyes.[/url]

Good enough for the Undivided faction. Hopefully the rest will be released soon.

Quote:
I saw the new rule, and it looks effective, but i have two concerns. I am not so convinced as you that this is not enough, as I think that with what you have already a Reaver should get at least 75 points less and a Warlord 125 to compensate


Maybe, but I have to say that my experience has been that people still treat the Warlords like they've always done. I think the problem is that even with some partial reward halfway, taking on a big titan is still very much a gamble that may not pay off. Their shields mean that unless you make a pretty significant effort, you'll probably end up with nothing. And even with a significant effort, you're still quite likely to end up with only crippling it and not killing it. On top of that, not all lists have what it takes to take on even a weaker Warlord.

Quote:
and on the other side with so much zeal there is for 1+ activation armies just the -1 on activations will make your list a lot less popular and will make it harder for you to find help for developing it and get the battle reports


Maybe, but as I've yet to see anyone else make a single bat-rep with them for the last two years I'm not going to worry about that too much. And they're still +1 to activate most of the time. In addition, if you've built your list with only one faction, there's probably going to be some activations where you're still at 1+ even with Crippling Damage.

I think it is more important to try and get a list that works, and that hopefully show that there's a way to make non-Tyranid WE-lists work. If that happens, I think people might want to start playing it.

Quote:
Second, i think those are too many mechanics there, if i were you i would keep it more simple like -1 on activations at half DC and -2 at quarter (rounding up), or -1 to armour at half DC and -2 at quarter. Or maybe go to thirds (would work nicely with Reaver's 6-4-2 DCs)


Could be, but I think dividing it up like that is quite complicated too, and could lead to problems since the TTL list doesn't only have 6-8-12, but also 7, 9 and 13 DC on the WE (Nurgle). Having a bunch of different cut-offs isn't very easy to remember.

But if you want to playtest something like that I'm all for it. As you might have noticed we (me, Argol and Norto) play loads of Epic on Tabletop Simulator, and you're welcome to join us there.

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 Post subject: Re: Traitor Titan Legions (TTL) v2.2 and v2.3b [Developmenta
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 1:58 am 
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New version of the experimental beta

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