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[Development] Mobile Forces of Catachan 0.4

 Post subject: [Development] Mobile Forces of Catachan 0.4
PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2019 8:57 pm 
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This is the newest revision of the Mobile Forces of Catachan and I hope to push this one to approved. Lets see how well this version actually is...

Background of the Mobile Forces of Catachan
The army is one of the many armies from the planet Catachan. Compared to other Deathworld Regiments, the Mobile Forces of Catachan take a rather unconservative approach to Warfare and rely heavily on a combined arms approach. The regiment is organized in mobile air companies, supported by ground companies.

The force uses forward scouts to infiltrate the enemy positions, be these experienced light infantry as well as Sentinels. After identifiying a target, the army uses hit and run tactics with the Valkyrie mounted troops. After an enemy position has been cleared out, the main forces moves in and secures the positions.

Their weakness is clearly an ongoing battle where they cannot retreat to a safer position with their mobile elements.

Design Concept and Design Ideas
After Revision 0.3.4. I put a lot of thought into it and came to the conclusion that the theme was not strong enough and more of a "what if Death Korps of Krieg got a flying Gorgon?". I removed Deathstrikes, Hellhounds, the big Griffon Company, Hydras... The list is more or less a blatant copy of the french Elysian list, but with "regular" infantry, stats adjusted to NetEA ones, mixed up units here and there. I also auto-included the Valkyrie transport for the ground formations to make this list more focused on the VTOL theme.


The strong and the weak points
+ Very fast and mobile army
+ Average/good FF values and a solid way to get the troops where they are needed
+ Some very cheap units
+ Scout everywhere
+ Easy access to BP weapons
+ Different Aircraft Types
+ Different Sentinel types to allow some nice scratch building
+ You play "Ride of the Valkyries" on full volume while you play the army

o Initative of 2+

- Not much MW (apart from the Valkyrie Tornado and some Sentinel)
- No WE
- No Deathstrikes
- No tough units (no AV with a save better than 5+)
- No Warhound(s) nor other Titans
- Weak/Easy to kill BTS
- As always, Support formations are more interesting than core. All useful units are in the Support section (Stormtroopers, Valkyrie Tornado, MW Sentinels...)
- Bad in CC except for Ogryns and Veterans with Demo charges
- No ground based AA

Next steps
- Try and break the list
- Get as much feedback from you guys and gals as possible
- Play it!

Old Version can be found here:
http://taccmd.tacticalwargames.net/view ... 74&t=29780

--- UPDATE ---

CHANGELOG FOR 0.4.3
- Fixed a couple of typos
- Added option for third Thunderbolts
- Removed Single Shot on Veterans to reduce book keeping

CHANGELOG FOR 0.4.2
- Changed number of available Commissars to (Total Army Pts / 500) -1
- Reduced point cost on Infantry platoon a bit
- Airborne Support Company moves down to Support Formations to avoid spamming
- Fixed Sniper upgrade to include a Valkyrie
- Split Ogryn upgrade to adjust points more freely
- Renamed Multi-Melta Sentinel
- Added Catachan Sentinel
- Changed Sentinel formations to a single "Sentinel Patrol formation"
- Removed Griffons (There is enough BP anyway plus Mortars and Support Sentinels for indirect fire anyway)
- Removed Salamanders
- Upped costs on Lunar by +25pts as 100 proved to be to cheap. Little discount to compensate for loss of any long range TK weaponry
- Removed Vulture Escort as duplicate from Vultures Upgrade
- Added Sentinels to the formations which might garrison
- Removed Salamanders from that list
- Reworked format of file to fit tp.net format and to make list more polished

Thanks to Rug, Norto, JimmyZ, Graf_Spee, LeMerco, Spike, Iron_Duke, Beelzemetz/Saukopfblende and all the others who contributed to this list by giving criticism, ideas and other valuable input! I put up a new version and formated it as closely as all the other lists on the TP.Net page.
All development is in close collaboration to the french Paras Elyséen list as I am working close with the french community on that list as well. Because the lists are quite similiar, input from their gaming group will be very valuable for this list and vice versa :)


Attachments:
Mobile Forces of Catachan Army List 0.4.3.pdf [344.98 KiB]
Downloaded 24 times

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Last edited by Largo_W on Fri Oct 25, 2019 8:49 am, edited 3 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: [Development] Mobile Forces of Catachan 0.4
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 9:06 am 
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A friend found a typo, Strategy should be 2 not 3. Remained fron translated french list

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 Post subject: Re: [Development] Mobile Forces of Catachan 0.4
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:29 pm 
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i'm going to admit i miss the big ass dropship you have in the previous attempt (unless I'm having a senior moment and mixing things up). It was going to allow me to play out my avatar fantasies ;)
This looks really cool and interesting.

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 Post subject: Re: [Development] Mobile Forces of Catachan 0.4
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 4:55 pm 
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Yeah I dropped the Albatros because of several reasons. There is not really a miniature available without stepping onto the toes of an Imperial Dropship, it's hard to justify by background bc it does not "officially" exist, hard to balance and hard to sculpt/find a suitable model. I wanted to make the list more accessable as well.

I am also not sure if point values are any good or completly over the top...

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 Post subject: Re: [Development] Mobile Forces of Catachan 0.4
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:09 am 
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I like the list, just a few comments:

On Sentinels.....

The “Catachan Sentinel” as is steps on the toes of the Elysian “Drop Sentinel” a bit, it is also quite different to its 40k counterpart which is armed with a heavy flamer and a chainsaw.

A heavy flamer with Ignore Cover shooting and Ignore Cover ff 5+ May be a bit more useful, not quite as effective in ff but still negating cover saves, but way more likely to hit things whilst shooting, again negating cover saves. I’d suggest the chainsaw does not confer an extra attack but instead makes them cc5+. I think the unit would still be worth 125pts.

If you’d like to keep the multimelta armed Sentinel I’d put it in called a “Drop Sentinel” but with Scout rather than teleport as it has in the Elysian list.

Do there need to be multiple Sentinel formations all at the same cost and with the same upgrades? It might be nice to just have a Sentinel Patrol which is a combination of any of the two or three types. It would nicely represent a long range, independent reccon formation.

On Salamanders....

As fast vehicles these don’t really fit the list IMO, are not necessary, and cause internal balance issues. I’d rather see them out.

With them being the 125pt exception to the “May not Garrison” rule, and being awesome (more on that later), I can’t see Sentinels ever being taken in the scouting/garrison/screening role.

The Salamander formation is very good compared to the bare Sentinel formations. They’re AVs, faster, have a greater threat range, come with Leader and Commander, and with a Commisar added can have two leaders, and they’re an exception to the “may not Garrison” rule.

On the “May not Garrison” rule.....

I don’t think this rule is necessary. If you decided to keep Salamanders in it would also go some way to making Sentinels a bit more appealing.

On upgrades.....

Guard upgrades need to be exceptional value when over 50pts or they’re just not taken.

I would decrease the cost of the 6 Infantry in 3 Vultures down to 100pts

2 Ogryn in 2 Vultures down to 75pts

The Sky Talon upgrade could be a 50pts flat cost regardless of the number of Sentinels.

On Commissars.....

Since I’ve proposed a number of buffs, as balance and a nod to the fluff maybe 1 commissar per 500pts, minus one. So a 3k Catachan list would have 5 Commissars.


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 Post subject: Re: [Development] Mobile Forces of Catachan 0.4
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 1:28 pm 
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Catachan's are known for fragging their Commissars (used to be called, "Sorry sir" if I'm mistaken). It's a good bit of fluff and balance

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 Post subject: Re: [Development] Mobile Forces of Catachan 0.4
PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 6:11 am 
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The idea with the garrison rule was to limit the number of Valkyries in the midfield and to limit the number of artillery sentinels in the midfield. Also: Mortars might be in Range with garrison. The Salamander was in as a scouting unit and fullfills a completly other role than the Sentinels.
I think a mixed Sentinel formation is a good call though.
Did you see that the Melta Sentinels are 4 and the kther formation is 6?

I really appreciate the feedback, feels like this actually might be going somewhere!

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 Post subject: Re: [Development] Mobile Forces of Catachan 0.4
PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 6:50 am 
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I need a fast reccon unit though, Sentinels are a bit unfit of that role I think, because of the Multimelta background wise.
How should they be as fast as the Valkyries?
I don't want to introduce the Tauros, a multi terrain buggy, for that role because it's very "Elysian". An "Empty" Vulture makes no sense, maybe just remove the Salamanders without adding anything in return?

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 Post subject: Re: [Development] Mobile Forces of Catachan 0.4
PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 9:56 am 
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The list has both Sentinel formations as 4 models, that seems right though tbh, 12 shots for 125pts is too cheap!

With so many fast units in the army I don’t think Salamanders are necessary, Vultures are the fast scouts, and Talon mounted Sentinels would still be able to Garrison if “May not garrison” was removed. The only Valkaries that are able to Garrison* forwards are the Storm Troopers but that’s an expensive option and nothing new to the game. I’m not too worried about the Support Sentinels being forward, their range isn’t doubled when sustaining so they’ll likely have to break cover and commit to shoot anything on turn 1.

I don’t think any mortars are able to Garrison?

What formations are supposed to be able to take the Sniper upgrade? They have no transport. I suggest 2 Snipers and a Valkyrie for 50pts.

*If the “May not garrison” rule is removed the Valkyrie mounted Ogryn core formation needs a single stand of guardsmen added to ride in the spare transport slot with the commander, this will mean non scouting troops outnumber scouting Valkyries and the formation won’t be able to garrison.... Garrisoning Mobile Ogryns would be silly!


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 Post subject: Re: [Development] Mobile Forces of Catachan 0.4
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2019 5:37 pm 
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Okay, I had a look at your suggestions. I don't think you can really justify these point values. I give you point on the Snipers, thats a reminesence from converting the list from the french, same with the Mortars.
I will change the Sentinel formation so that you get either 4 support or 4 drop, agreed on the Commissar rule.
Also add snipers: pts 50 one sniper and a Valkyrie or 75 for 2+1 Valkyrie.
2 Ogryns and two Valkyries at 75 I cant justify. I understand your pount though.
The infantry upgrade is the same in the Vanaheim list, want to have at least a bit of consistency here.

To sum it up:
- "No Garrison" stays as I don't really want to add a Infantry stand to the Ogryns
- Sentinels will be allowed to Garrison
- Salamanders are out
- Sniper Upgrade includes a Valkyrie now, at +25pts
- Sentinels become one formation with the option to mix freely (this might lead to abuse I think)
- Add a Ogryn and a Valkyrie: 50pts/100pts for 2+2
- Army gets a free Commissar for full 500 Pts or part thereof, minus one as Commissars attached to Catachan regiments are reknown for having "accidents"

Another thing might be to change the default weapon on the infantry - but on the other hand I don't want to mess up the list too much and introduce elements which are not common. The Guard player already has infantry in Chimeras, and this should be fairly the same. A Missile Launcher makes more sense from a background perspective (Tube Launchers), but it's the same stat as the Autocannon anyways.
Would be lovely to add flamethrowers or even heavy flamers and Melta guns; it's pretty hard to test/sculpt/playtest though.
I really hope to get this done in a year, let it loose on tournaments and use that feedback to improve the list further. Kinda like the EUK approach.

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 Post subject: Re: [Development] Mobile Forces of Catachan 0.4
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 12:16 pm 
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NEW FILE IN FIRST POST

CHANGELOG FOR 0.4.2
- Changed number of available Commissars to (Total Army Pts / 500) -1
- Reduced point cost on Infantry platoon a bit
- Airborne Support Company moves down to Support Formations to avoid spamming
- Fixed Sniper upgrade to include a Valkyrie
- Split Ogryn upgrade to adjust points more freely
- Renamed Multi-Melta Sentinel
- Added Catachan Sentinel
- Changed Sentinel formations to a single "Sentinel Patrol formation"
- Removed Griffons (There is enough BP anyway plus Mortars and Support Sentinels for indirect fire anyway)
- Removed Salamanders
- Upped costs on Lunar by +25pts as 100 proved to be to cheap. Little discount to compensate for loss of any long range TK weaponry
- Removed Vulture Escort as duplicate from Vultures Upgrade
- Added Sentinels to the formations which might garrison
- Removed Salamanders from that list
- Reworked format of file to fit tp.net format and to make list more polished

Thanks to Rug, Norto, JimmyZ, Graf_Spee, LeMerco, Spike, Iron_Duke, Beelzemetz/Saukopfblende and all the others who contributed to this list by giving criticism, ideas and other valuable input! I put up a new version and formated it as closely as all the other lists on the TP.Net page.
All development is in close collaboration to the french Paras Elyséen list as I am working close with the french community on that list as well. Because the lists are quite similiar, input from their gaming group will be very valuable for this list and vice versa :)

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 Post subject: Re: [Development] Mobile Forces of Catachan 0.4
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 1:09 pm 
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Few points mucker:

BP option for mortarmen?

BP option for Sp Sentinal . plus a typo A6+

SS for Valks not one shot (Typo)

Price for TB 50 pts too much or possibility for a 3rd purchased?

Sp Sentinal not having its range doubled on ind, perhaps add disrupt or IC hitting on a 7+ if moved 8+ on cover seems hard (not impossible though) to do

Maybe add a HK missile team for AA (ás no hydras)

but very nice list


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 Post subject: Re: [Development] Mobile Forces of Catachan 0.4
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 2:44 pm 
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Is it worth giving first strike to the inf? big knives and all


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 Post subject: Re: [Development] Mobile Forces of Catachan 0.4
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 2:51 pm 
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And should sky talons also have rocket pods?


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 Post subject: Re: [Development] Mobile Forces of Catachan 0.4
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 5:15 pm 
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Fixed typos, fixed point cost.
Might be an option to add up to two Thunderbolts for +75pts each?
Don't want to add BP to Mortars due to balancing reasons. Atm they are similar to Fire Support, but less range on advance/double which will be the most common order.

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