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State of the Guard?
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=74&t=32701
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Author:  GlynG [ Fri Sep 29, 2017 3:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: State of the Guard?

Looking at the online wiki entities for the Tauros it looks like there's a 4 wheeled lighter version for scouting (armed with either a heavy flamer or heavy grenade launcher) and a 6 wheeled version that has heavier armour and more powerful armament.

I'd like to see both of these types represented, with the lighter Tauros having scout and a 30cm move and the heavier Taurus Venator version with the lascannons having 25cm move and no scout (could have a better save or just assume the extra armour isn't of enough consequence at our scale). The proxies sold by Vanguard do have two each of these different ones and it would be a shame not to include both rather than wasting half what you get:

Image

I'm coming round more to the possibility of an AA Taurus, even if it's an invention for epic, though I'd want it to be on the slower non-scout Tauros Venator. It would make sense for the size and weight of the weapon and it'd be easier to convert the Venator proxy than the standard one as it looks like the turret is separate on the Venator.

Author:  Apocolocyntosis [ Fri Sep 29, 2017 3:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: State of the Guard?

Largo_W wrote:
I would still take the 120cm version at the moment, to be honest. Even though the Punisher has much more style... :eh

What if you could add punishers to the valk formations as a fire support upgrade.

An please can we get vendettas as a dedicated gunship formation, not just a transport swap. (their extra weapons reduce the transport space anyway)

I'm fine with the list having no ground AA, but i think the CAP garrison rule needs a tweak. The CAP garrison is the perk for having no ground base AA, but it counts against your ground overwatch, so ends up penalising you on the ground: the rule that's meant to help a bit with one weakness then kicks you if you use it. Other lists can start with AA cover (on ground) and two garrison OW. If vanna use thier CAP garrison they have to take something on the ground off OW. Starting on cap also takes you an activation down t1.

I like the idea of the list, but it's very very monobuild and most of its oomph is 1 shot. So there's 1 way to play the list, and if the dice on that one shot are sub-bar, its gone.

Author:  Largo_W [ Fri Sep 29, 2017 5:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: State of the Guard?

Well I am easy, I just want to get the thought process rolling and perhaps get one more list approved for euros next year, ideally Airborne Guard.
I dont mind two different minatures/profiles - it is just more to playtest/validate.
Why not add singleton Vultures to airborne formations - makes the formation much more aggressive than without.

I agree with Apoc though, skimming through the lists and clicking with army forge, all lists contain 3 sentinel formations, two Vulture formations and three+ Airborne formations. The differences are minimal; eg. different Interceptors, the odd melta formation (never with Valkyries) and maybe Stormtroopers.

Author:  RichardL [ Mon Oct 02, 2017 1:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: State of the Guard?

Well, there are three main things that need to be done to get it sorted as far as i can see:

1. Sorting out who's doing what, and setting some deadlines on it.

2. Getting a draft list prepared, and out to testers.

3. Getting 3 testing groups in place to test it, and ideally schedule in games.

I could probably organise one in the London area, so it would just need 2 more groups that could commit to at least 3 games in a reasonable amount of time, and getting the results up online.

Author:  RugII [ Mon Oct 02, 2017 1:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: State of the Guard?

Once the current Steel Legion and Baneblade reviews are closed a look at one of the other Guard lists will be next, this seems as good a one as any!

Author:  captPiett [ Mon Oct 02, 2017 1:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: State of the Guard?

If work is to be done on the E:A airborne list(s), priority #1 in my opinion is replacing the teleport mechanic, preferably in favor of some sort of self-planetfall. I think this would be a more accurate and non-screwy (i.e. the Elysians get screwed with BMs teleporting in with SR 2) way of representing a parachute/grav chute drop.

I'd help out testing - I have a fully assembled and painted Elysian army that hardly sees use because it's an exercise in self-flagellation to play the current list.

Author:  jimmyzimms [ Mon Oct 02, 2017 1:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: State of the Guard?

captPiett wrote:
If work is to be done on the E:A airborne list(s), priority #1 in my opinion is replacing the teleport mechanic, preferably in favor of some sort of self-planetfall. I think this would be a more accurate and non-screwy (i.e. the Elysians get screwed with BMs teleporting in with SR 2) way of representing a parachute/grav chute drop.

I'd help out testing - I have a fully assembled and painted Elysian army that hardly sees use because it's an exercise in self-flagellation to play the current list.


^this^
I believe we're the two that have been pointing this out for ages (something akin to "how is this even fun to play?" :) ). I would adore to see the Elysians go for approved. I'm actually ok with a couple of airborne lists as the warhawks actually do play differently.

Author:  RichardL [ Mon Oct 02, 2017 1:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: State of the Guard?

RugII wrote:
Once the current Steel Legion and Baneblade reviews are closed a look at one of the other Guard lists will be next, this seems as good a one as any!


Oh, let me know if you fancy a game at some point btw - i've reasonable availability this month, both on weekends and evenings.

Author:  Scutarii [ Sun Oct 08, 2017 5:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: State of the Guard?

I can put some feelers out on the FB thread Richard and see what can be organised, we didn't find a slot last month, hopefully we can rectify that this month!

Author:  RugII [ Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: State of the Guard?

RugII wrote:
Once the current Steel Legion and Baneblade reviews are closed a look at one of the other Guard lists will be next, this seems as good a one as any!


I've been given quite a strong reminder I need to follow through on this.....

It's been mentioned the EUK VTOL lists are underpowered, addressing this would be another good project for someone to take on as a basis for a NetEA list.

Has anyone tested Elisians not suffering -1 on activation rolls for having BMs? I might...

Author:  Kyrt [ Sun Mar 18, 2018 6:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: State of the Guard?

Issue with elysians for me is that the teleport mechanic does represent chutes very well, deep strike but you can end up a bit disjointed when you land. I think it would appear a bit odd if they were the only ones to not suffer any penalty to activating straight after landing but swooping hawks for example do not. I suppose you can say they specialise in this but still jars IMO.

The issue is with the teleport rule itself, you have to land them all at the same time at the beginning of the turn. Self planetfall would have world better as a mechanic for teleport across the board in many cases because you can choose when you come in.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

Author:  lord-bruno [ Mon Mar 19, 2018 7:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: State of the Guard?

RugII wrote:
RugII wrote:
Once the current Steel Legion and Baneblade reviews are closed a look at one of the other Guard lists will be next, this seems as good a one as any!


I've been given quite a strong reminder I need to follow through on this.....

It's been mentioned the EUK VTOL lists are underpowered, ...


I think Ulani is quite underpowered too. I tried to fix that with my own version of the list (Konig), moving Conqueror and Hellhound fms to core.

And I think Bombards and Basiliks are underpowered in all lists...

Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Mon Mar 19, 2018 7:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: State of the Guard?

Please move Hellhounds in Steel Legion from Upgrades to Support Formation. :)

Agreed bombards are probably worth 200pts, Basilisks 225pts, IMO.

I like Storm Troopers with Valkyries. I never leave the barracks without them.

Author:  RugII [ Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: State of the Guard?

lord-bruno wrote:

I think Ulani is quite underpowered too. I tried to fix that with my own version of the list (Konig), moving Conqueror and Hellhound fms to core.



Ulani is an EUK list, it's not in my gift to do anything about it!

Author:  GlynG [ Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: State of the Guard?

It should be your call what changes are made but I think it would be good to implement some as there hasn't been any in a long while and some units and upgrades still aren't seeing play. There's been some playtesting of ideas - not as much would be ideal, but is where we're at - and it'd be good for you to make a decision and get a load of changes made to the tournament pack list.

Responding to your comments in the other locked thread I don't see a problem with adjusting points costs to balance units personally and it's not like there isn't a LOT of precedent - compare the SM list in the printed Epic rulebook with the Net-EA list and 14 out of the 28 formations and upgrades have had their costs changed.

If a new player is going to a tournament the event will specify what lists are being used for the player to familiarise themselves and lists are normally submitted to the TO to check, who should pick up on errors. If a player only finds out at the tournament itself he's short he might be able to add a little extra in or just chalk it up to experience and know better for next time, it's unlikely to make a huge difference.

I haven't played with Guard in years but I used to exclusively use Manticores for artillery over the others. Increasing the range of the Bombard to 60 could be a good alternative too - in 40k the Bombard has identical range to a Basilisk. The Manticore would still be better but the Bombard would be more useful than now.

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