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The New Death Korps of Krieg Army List

 Post subject: Re: The New Death Korps of Krieg Army List
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 10:34 pm 
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+1 for mordoten. I still think the list is pretty broken and I personally prefer the bit more tame UK version (which is still pretty strong). As the Gorgon is still a incredibly sturdy, reliable and cheap Warengine it will be used as reference in other lists as well, which in turn results in power creep.
Furthermore, I believe the Krieg list will win every game on the EEC if it is played by a decent skilled player.
Mark my words.

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 Post subject: Re: The New Death Korps of Krieg Army List
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 11:25 pm 
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I think you are plain wrong about the Gorgon inf companies now. They are tough as nails but they are very expensive, quite slow and they can´t shoot at all (almost). They are also quite bad against war machines in FF. Plenty of weknesses.

I can see that the single Warhounds might be too strong but that is probably true in many army lists. I will test out the drill some time in the future!

Now to wait for the army forge update!


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 Post subject: Re: The New Death Korps of Krieg Army List
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 12:25 am 
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Yeah I agree that's a bit harsh towards mordoten. This IS the place to note concerns right now and nothing wrong with his tone nor posts I feel...

My concerns are that we've seen 0 testing about any of this so far so taking a moment and kinda seeing where things are is the better part of valor here. I'm just cautioning to perhaps run some games and report back in short order. The way this was handled was an in extremis deal with the older version being so broken.

Largo: That's an interesting thing about this. I'm actually shocked that the EUK DKoK lists isn't the one available, especially considering just how bonkers the old one was. Allowing a completely untested one into the EEC is rather surprising personally. 2cents

Rug: that's your biz about when and how to run. you feel we need 12-18 months, well, you're the boss after all. :)

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 Post subject: Re: The New Death Korps of Krieg Army List
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 1:05 am 
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mordoten wrote:
Wow, so now it's a bad thing to point out concerns for a list in the theead thats about that list? Maybee beefcake4000 could take a few deep breaths and try to understand how an open forum works....


Sorry, I have to agree with Mordoten.

I interpret the sentiment of Beefcake4000's post as one of appreciation for the work that went in to the changes to the list and trying to defend the new version from premature criticism, but IMHO every AC is obliged to seek out and listen to criticism.

Case in point: Mordoten posted that he'd like to see the Hades Breaching Drill removed from the list. I don't know why; I consider it to be over-priced at 250 as a blitz-claimer that sucks an activation out of the list for the first 2 turns. At the 175pts squats pay for a similar unit I'd consider it, but at 250 I wouldn't use it in a list personally, so I may never see the specific issue it causes.
Therefore I would like to hear more from Mordoten about what he thinks the problem with the unit is.

All that to say I appreciate the supportive comments, but also appreciate the constructive criticisms.


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 Post subject: Re: The New Death Korps of Krieg Army List
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 1:17 am 
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jimmyzimms wrote:
My concerns are that we've seen 0 testing about any of this so far so taking a moment and kinda seeing where things are is the better part of valor here. I'm just cautioning to perhaps run some games and report back in short order.


I can't comment on the EEC process since I am not part of it. However, regarding the list itself there was a lot of testing during this revision, which generated battle reports, which fed back in to additional changes etc.

Once an almost-finalised version was ready, the list was approved for use by TOs at at least 3 tournaments I am aware of. The most recent of these was the Australian Nationals (Cancon) where it managed to land just above the centre of the pack (3 Wins 1 Draw 2 Major Losses). At a tournament in WA last year a player attempted the old 3 Gorgon formation list despite the points and unit changes and finished in the bottom quarter of the results. (He has since said he will switch to 2 Gorgon formations and try to adjust in future).

Don't take this to mean I am saying it's a weak list or that I am trying to dress it up as a little lamb; it's definitely still competitive, and the massive assault formations are good at massive assaults. What I am saying is that it's not a win-button list and we have seen both in test games and in real competitive tournaments that players are having to work harder for their victories.


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 Post subject: Re: The New Death Korps of Krieg Army List
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 1:34 am 
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I hadn't seen any batreps but lots of excel. Evidently I was mistaken. This is good thing.

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 Post subject: Re: The New Death Korps of Krieg Army List
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 7:46 am 
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The hades breaching drill is a way for a slow list to make it deep into the opponents deployment zone. Even if its an bad option it brings synergy to the list that i don't think is good. Same with singlton warhounds. Its a cheap way of getting fast units into the list that can secure the enemy blitz.

As i said inanother recent post: Having toughs as nails inf co in gorgons that are very resilient and also one of the best assault formations in the game AND having 2 options that can threathen the enemy backfield makes for a very good synergy.

Even if the hades is crap it still forces me to leave units on the blitz to guard it. And if i want to beat the inf co i need to throw everything i got at them. I play against the lisat now and then cause Partisan_nick is my friend. He is also a good player and it's really hard to see what the weakness of the list is in it's current form.

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 Post subject: Re: The New Death Korps of Krieg Army List
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 10:56 am 
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Just wondering,

The points in the TP for serveral Krieg formations, don't match the list on the first post?

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 Post subject: Re: The New Death Korps of Krieg Army List
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 8:20 pm 
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mordoten wrote:
The hades breaching drill is a way for a slow list to make it deep into the opponents deployment zone. Even if its an bad option it brings synergy to the list that i don't think is good. Same with singlton warhounds. Its a cheap way of getting fast units into the list that can secure the enemy blitz.

As i said inanother recent post: Having toughs as nails inf co in gorgons that are very resilient and also one of the best assault formations in the game AND having 2 options that can threathen the enemy backfield makes for a very good synergy.

Even if the hades is crap it still forces me to leave units on the blitz to guard it. And if i want to beat the inf co i need to throw everything i got at them. I play against the lisat now and then cause Partisan_nick is my friend. He is also a good player and it's really hard to see what the weakness of the list is in it's current form.


well for me one weakness is that going for sc and another super tough infantery comp with gorgons and no ranged power whatsoever you pay 1100 pts. that will give you 2 activations. wow. immobilze or take out just one gorgon and see what happens. especially when you face artillery. activation wise you normally end up on the short side with krieg when going for 2 mobilized infantery comps.

another weakness are tough ra enemy formations. trying to counter that in your build and you end up compromising end over end.

regarding blitz guard.. well.. what about landas, thunderhawks, terminators, swooping hawks, flayed ones, trygons and what not? of course you will need a suiatble blitzguard. and since the the missile silo is nerfed down so needs dkok as well.

yes, solo warhounds might come up as an issue. but personally i didn't have difficulties placing 3bm on one. and then only 2 every other round. when you consider them as a guaranteed matchwinner what are chaos death wheels to you?

from my feelings the list reads fine, even though a bit on the expensive side. actual testing will show the valid or invalid points.

cheers


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 Post subject: Re: The New Death Korps of Krieg Army List
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 8:45 pm 
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@Matt-Shadowlord

any chance of a list of all the changes from the previous version to make my life easier for armyforge?

if you've already done this, please point me at it, I'm lazy (currently very busy with personal stuff so the easier you make it, the quicker it gets done ;) )

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 Post subject: Re: The New Death Korps of Krieg Army List
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 9:40 pm 
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kyussinchains wrote:
@Matt-Shadowlord

any chance of a list of all the changes from the previous version to make my life easier for armyforge?

if you've already done this, please point me at it, I'm lazy (currently very busy with personal stuff so the easier you make it, the quicker it gets done ;) )

I can do that Kyuss. apparently one can't upload .json files here so I'll pm you shortly.


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 Post subject: Re: The New Death Korps of Krieg Army List
PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 9:42 am 
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kyussinchains wrote:
@Matt-Shadowlord

any chance of a list of all the changes from the previous version to make my life easier for armyforge?

if you've already done this, please point me at it, I'm lazy (currently very busy with personal stuff so the easier you make it, the quicker it gets done ;) )


Thanks for doing the update btw! ;D


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 Post subject: Re: The New Death Korps of Krieg Army List
PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 9:55 am 
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no problem, Borka did the majority of the legwork :)

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 Post subject: Re: The New Death Korps of Krieg Army List
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 5:45 pm 
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Loving the Army List as it is, however, to add more flavour/points into the mix, is there scope to replace the Russ' with Siegfried Tanks ata reduced cost ie replace all 1 or all 6? or perhaps inclusion of 3 Ragnoraks instead of 6 Russ'?


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