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[fanlist] Tallarn Desert Raiders

 Post subject: [fanlist] Tallarn Desert Raiders
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 6:13 pm 
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Since there's been an uptick in attention (and even playtests!) recently I figured I'd peel this part off and continue on here in a dedicate thread. Attached here is a redacted version sent in by some in the community to discuss.

It adds some more cavalry variety (since that's a recent request), simplified the army special rules, and streamlines some of the options/unit stats by leveraging more default EA units than named variants whenever possible. Trying a radical suggestion about pushing the army towards ultra-high activation (we'll test and see if that's crazy talk).

0.8 list updated.
After performing some internal tests (Many thanks Apoc) we found the singleton knights were wonky so 2 with option for 3rd. Also we felt knight stubbers shouldn't be EA+1 but are just in the base FF value.
Marauder Destroyers from EpicUK (re)introduced keeping the air power focused on the CAS role.
Standardized on NetEA conquerors but put the EpicUK variant in the bottom for those that want that instead.

Removed fancy styling because online editor is not a fan.
Attachment:
Tallarn Desert Raiders-0.8.pdf [187.02 KiB]
Downloaded 25 times

ARMY BUILDER LINK
We'll let this percolate a bit and without any major issues discovered, we're probably going to run with this.


Attachments:
Tallarn-0.7.pdf [161.53 KiB]
Downloaded 47 times
Tallarn Desert Raiders 0.1.pdf [436.09 KiB]
Downloaded 33 times
File comment: Contains the missing commissars rule
Tallarn-0.5b.pdf [155.9 KiB]
Downloaded 36 times
Tallarn-0.5.pdf [153.52 KiB]
Downloaded 34 times

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Last edited by jimmyzimms on Tue Oct 15, 2019 12:13 pm, edited 8 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: [fanlist] Tallarn Desert Raiders
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 6:49 pm 
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BTW The faction wide rules are considered part of the list (just not duplicated for brevity)
For reference:
Quote:
Commissar
An Imperial Guard army may include one Commissar character per 500 points, or part thereof, in the army. The Commissars do not cost any points.

Commissar units may be added to the army at the start of the battle before either side sets up. If the army includes a Supreme Commander than the first Commissar must be attached to the Supreme Commander’s formation. Any further Commissars may be attached to any other formations.

You may not include more than one Commissar per formation. You may not add a Commissar to an Imperial Ally formation. If you have more Commissars than formations any excess is lost.

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 Post subject: Re: [fanlist] Tallarn Desert Raiders
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 9:23 pm 
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please can we have the option either to take 6 hellhound formation, OR to upgrade the 3HH with 3 more (at a cost reduction). Lists got loads of cheap spam formations already, would be nice to see HHs properly useful in their own right.

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 Post subject: Re: [fanlist] Tallarn Desert Raiders
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 9:26 pm 
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Should Tauros have scout? could add scout salamanders?

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 Post subject: Re: [fanlist] Tallarn Desert Raiders
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 11:27 pm 
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Apocolocyntosis wrote:
please can we have the option either to take 6 hellhound formation, OR to upgrade the 3HH with 3 more (at a cost reduction). Lists got loads of cheap spam formations already, would be nice to see HHs properly useful in their own right.


The russ conquerors are 6 so it would be a good symmetry. I adore 6 hellhounds running around in the Cadian list.

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 Post subject: Re: [fanlist] Tallarn Desert Raiders
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 4:58 am 
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6 Hellhounds are super fun!
And the price point is perfect for them in the Cadians.

What's the thoughts on the questorus Knight? Any reason not to lift from the Knight list and field with Knight shield in a unit of 3?

Love the no big titans, miss warhounds but can understand the leaving them behind :)

The Mukaali look interesting as well as a tougher Rough Rider unit


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 Post subject: Re: [fanlist] Tallarn Desert Raiders
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 3:04 pm 
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Mard wrote:
6 Hellhounds are super fun!
And the price point is perfect for them in the Cadians.

yeah they're really fun in that list. I painted 12 up 100% due to Cadians. :D

Mard wrote:
What's the thoughts on the questorus Knight? Any reason not to lift from the Knight list and field with Knight shield in a unit of 3?

Yeah stats should NEED be the same across lists. Can't say about the formation size. I'll let them chime in.
The inclusion of the knight armor is to remove the admittedly hokey mukaali support unit which didn't model well nor really work out in practice. I like the idea in here.

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 Post subject: Re: [fanlist] Tallarn Desert Raiders
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 3:43 pm 
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Hi all,

I've quietly helped jimmyzimms write up the document in the background.

Quote:
please can we have the option either to take 6 hellhound formation... would be nice to see HHs properly useful in their own right.

I was concerned at the formation becoming a mainstay formation that can work on its own, without need for / acting as a support formation. As you note it'd make them work in their own right, rather than in support.

Is that the right kind of formation, for a *Tallarn* list?

I could see it in Cadian, or Catachan lists, but... is it right for Tallarns?

Quote:
What's the thoughts on the questorus Knight? Any reason not to lift from the Knight list and field with Knight shield in a unit of 3?

I borrowed the stats from the EUK Adeptus Titanicus list - the stats are intended to reflect the modern plastic AT Questoris Knight model kit that GW have released, rather than the Paladin Knight of old.

I've played against the solo 175pt Knight a lot in playtesting the AT list for EUK, and it's a great fun unit - and again, being a solo unit it isn't able to become a mainstay that fights battles all on its own.

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 Post subject: Re: [fanlist] Tallarn Desert Raiders
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 3:49 pm 
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Apocolocyntosis wrote:
Should Tauros have scout?

They'd need to be more expensive if so. Thoughts peoples?


Quote:
could add scout salamanders?

They overlap enough with Tauros that they don't seem needed IMO?

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 Post subject: Re: [fanlist] Tallarn Desert Raiders
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 3:55 pm 
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One area for stress testing is the teleporty storm troopers. We need to make sure that teleportation scouts don't suck the air out of the game for the opponent. I suspect not, just we should validate that aspect.

Tauros vs Salamanders is a good discussion.
E&C: What's the argument for Tauros?
Apoc: What's the argument for Salamanders?

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 Post subject: Re: [fanlist] Tallarn Desert Raiders
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 3:59 pm 
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Quote:
E&C: What's the argument for Tauros?

Vanguard have a cool proxy model, and dune buggies are also cool.
That's like, two cool things.

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 Post subject: Re: [fanlist] Tallarn Desert Raiders
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 4:16 pm 
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Evil and Chaos wrote:
Quote:
E&C: What's the argument for Tauros?

Vanguard have a cool proxy model, and dune buggies are also cool.
That's like, two cool things.

;D

Just to play devil's advocate here, shouldn't that mean we go off and fix the Elysian list then since we have models for it and the only Tallarn list from FW didn't actually have them (unlike the other)? I personally happen to like the higher ranges for plinking though. OTOH I also like Bren Gun Carriers too. :-\

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 Post subject: Re: [fanlist] Tallarn Desert Raiders
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 4:19 pm 
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agreed you dont need both at present, and not if both had scout. Reason to have scout salamanders would be if the venators don't have scout.

Hellhounds: if the concern is they should be used in concert with other stuff that option already exists as the formation upgrade. 3 HH operating with/embedded in other elements = formation upgrade. hellhound support formation at 6 then becomes more workable on its own. If you don't want them on their own, only have them as upgrades? (honestly dont know the fluff here, so fair enough if tallarns dont really use HH, i'd just like more lists where HHs have a real role!)

wonder if support Mukaali could see FF4+ not 5+? i realise FF > CC, but missing out on +1EA FS is a bit drop to have compensated by FF6+ to FF5+

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 Post subject: Re: [fanlist] Tallarn Desert Raiders
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 4:36 pm 
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jimmyzimms wrote:
One area for stress testing is the teleporty storm troopers. We need to make sure that teleportation scouts don't suck the air out of the game for the opponent. I suspect not, just we should validate that aspect.


Teleporting scouts should not cause too much of a problem as they still have to be placed within 5cm of each other when teleporting in.
Their 10cm ZofC can still be a problem as can moving to full 20cm coherency when they activate but they cannot be placed at full screening distance when they come in.
Also never felt any problems with Swooping Hawks although testing multiple units of storm troopers coming in would be a good idea.


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 Post subject: Re: [fanlist] Tallarn Desert Raiders
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 5:10 pm 
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good point about the initial teleport range. I was thinking of their subsequent move and quicksand. OTOH that really is kinda their point and the upgrade cost prohibits too much sillilness

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