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Cadian Shock Troops v1.5

 Post subject: Re: Cadian Shock Troops v1.5
PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 10:25 am 
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Interesting list, not sure how well it would fair against other opponents. Titans in general does not have that many activations so this must have been a "bad" matchup for them. Stepping on ants the whole time.

It might differ between games but when I have faced Titans (or the likes) they have placed two objectives on the middle line close together and walked there with a big one contesting both, while leaving another big guy on or close to the Blitz. That generally mean that you have to take out one of the Reavers or similar to win the game, as they are denying BTS, Blitz, Hold the Line and TSNP. But your army is very different then my usual ones so perhaps the spamming of activations can counter that. And as always you could get lucky with the deathstrikes against the big ones :)


Will try and write a plan on the playtesting in the weekend so we can start. Do you think we should make any changes before going in "testmode"?


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 Post subject: Re: Cadian Shock Troops v1.5
PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 10:43 am 
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Beefcakes list was a really good one that had a strong theme and he played it well.

It also had a great WOW factor in the horde of storm troopers, sorry Karsiskinssas it had on the table.
The death strikes, shadowsword and levitation allowed him to deal some death at range, but not too over the top.

The Valks were great threat bubblers and the hordes were great horders.

There are some minor issues with the list however that I think could be addressed. Sentinels at only 100 points for 6 are a bit cheap for what you get. The upgraded armour and guns is enough to compensate for the loss of scout.

I do still think that the Psykers are way too cheap for what they do. They are compared to ogryns but they are very different. The psykers can sit in any vehicle - so are flexible with what ever organisation you put them in. With ogryns you generally have to purchase their own separate chimera if you want them to keep up. Or you dont bother with the chimera because they are escorting super heavies. But the formations that they are attached too in the Canadian list arent super heavies. So the actual cost of ogryns is 100 points. 50 for 2 plus 2 chimeras. SO straight up the psykers present a greater level of flexibility than ogryns.

And thats not to mention that psykers are actually better than ogryns stat wise. MW FF 4+ is always better than CC MW because you have more chance of using it. Also Psykers are CC 4+ i would think their frail bodies would not be up to spacemarine super power face palms. If it is their psyhic ability then isnt that encapsulated in the 6+ invul?
I think psykers at MW FF4+ CC6+ Invul6+ are probably better suited to a 0-1 upgrade per formation and 25 or 50 points.

2 at their current stats per formation is a bit of a rort.


Cheers,
Jim


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 Post subject: Re: Cadian Shock Troops v1.5
PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2015 1:47 am 
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JimXII wrote:
And thats not to mention that psykers are actually better than ogryns stat wise. MW FF 4+ is always better than CC MW because you have more chance of using it. Also Psykers are CC 4+ i would think their frail bodies would not be up to spacemarine super power face palms. If it is their psyhic ability then isnt that encapsulated in the 6+ invul?
I think psykers at MW FF4+ CC6+ Invul6+ are probably better suited to a 0-1 upgrade per formation and 25 or 50 points.

2 at their current stats per formation is a bit of a rort.

Cheers,
Jim


I think this is a reasonable suggestion. Whether they stay at 25pts each or 2 for 50 makes no real difference imo but the reduction of the cc element of their attack makes sense. There are few options in the game where the macro weapon is equally effective in both bc and cc and I would assume it's more of a tactical factor.

Personally I don't care about the fluff arguments either way but much like with sentinels if this change was introduced I'd still take them every time. Storm troopers are terrible at range so their only option is in engagement and there is a good synergy here.

I would suggest you make this change before play testing wether you decide to do the sentinels changes or not.

I've got games lines up against squats and vraskians both in the next week. I'll focus reports on whatever priorities you decide.


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 Post subject: Re: Cadian Shock Troops v1.5
PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2015 9:17 am 
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JimXII wrote:
Beefcakes list was a really good one that had a strong theme and he played it well.

It also had a great WOW factor in the horde of storm troopers, sorry Karsiskinssas it had on the table.
The death strikes, shadowsword and levitation allowed him to deal some death at range, but not too over the top.

The Valks were great threat bubblers and the hordes were great horders.

There are some minor issues with the list however that I think could be addressed. Sentinels at only 100 points for 6 are a bit cheap for what you get. The upgraded armour and guns is enough to compensate for the loss of scout.

I do still think that the Psykers are way too cheap for what they do. They are compared to ogryns but they are very different. The psykers can sit in any vehicle - so are flexible with what ever organisation you put them in. With ogryns you generally have to purchase their own separate chimera if you want them to keep up. Or you dont bother with the chimera because they are escorting super heavies. But the formations that they are attached too in the Canadian list arent super heavies. So the actual cost of ogryns is 100 points. 50 for 2 plus 2 chimeras. SO straight up the psykers present a greater level of flexibility than ogryns.

And thats not to mention that psykers are actually better than ogryns stat wise. MW FF 4+ is always better than CC MW because you have more chance of using it. Also Psykers are CC 4+ i would think their frail bodies would not be up to spacemarine super power face palms. If it is their psyhic ability then isnt that encapsulated in the 6+ invul?
I think psykers at MW FF4+ CC6+ Invul6+ are probably better suited to a 0-1 upgrade per formation and 25 or 50 points.

2 at their current stats per formation is a bit of a rort.


Cheers,
Jim
Nice to hear what the "opponent" think also. I tend to agree with all of your comments above. I inherited this list and the Sentinels and Psykers were left unchanged because I didn't think that they made such a big impact but as you both say they are a little too good at what they do.
I prefer to do small changes so would it be ok if I did the following:
1. Changed the Psykers to the above stat line. (Never got it why they had CC4+ anyway :) ) But keep the cost and 0-2 option.
2. I like the 6 formation strong Sentinels so I would rather raise the price with 25p and perhaps take away the Scout formation altogether. They might be worth 150 points but I'm not totally convinced so lets start at 125? (Roughriders cost 150p but feels a little better at some things and worse at others...?)


Beefcake4000 wrote:
I've got games lines up against squats and vraskians both in the next week. I'll focus reports on whatever priorities you decide.
Will be interesting to see how your army fairs against non titans :) Hope to get the armylist updated this weekend with the changes above if you agree.

Also what is your take on the general playtest suggestions for the Imperial Guard http://taccmd.tacticalwargames.net/view ... 74&t=30090 ?
I am tempted to put some into this list but not sure if they will pass or not. Making the Stormlords 20cm for example is in line with gorgons and the new baneblade thread but will make them much better. Not sure I like that...
Hellhounds change is not what I personally want...
Bombard is ok and fun...
Chimeras to Stormtroopers is something I have been thinking about before. An option that substitute the Valkyries in that case. But it makes some of this lists weakness go away (mobility) The Valks is much more fragile then Chimeras.


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 Post subject: Re: Cadian Shock Troops v1.5
PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2015 2:06 am 
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Boost the points by 25 and scrap the scout formation altogether, it becomes a notable difference then. And totally agree on the psykers, seems like an easy change.

Roughriders at 150 IMO are better than the sentinels because of their combat options and scout. The only thing that is really good about these sentinels is that they are 5+ armour and a unit of 6. Roughies can garrison, get cover saves and have scout so I don't think they should be the same points.

As for the Steel Legion changes to be honest I'd rather just get this list approved on its own. If the other changes come in then they will probably just be included by default in DKOK/Barians/Cadians to keep them consistent. Lets not overcomplicate.

You mentioned concerns in your area about the ordinatus? etc? Maybe you focus your bat reps on the balance of those issues and I'll focus on psykers/sentinels, that way we are adressing people's concerns fairly.


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 Post subject: Re: Cadian Shock Troops v1.5
PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2015 8:25 am 
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Ok , so the proposed changes is:

Battle Psykers INF 15cm - 4+ 6+ Psychic Powers (15cm) Small Arms, MW Invulnerable SaveWorse CC, but we need to keep an eye on these.

Sentinel Squadron Six Cadian Sentinels 125 pointsDropping the "normal" sentinels and adjusting the price to 125p

Mechanized Kasrkin One IG Commander unit, seven Kasrkin units and four Valkyries 300 points OR four Chimeras 250pAdding Chimeras to the Kasrkin. This will also be the end of the Mechanized platoon as I do not see a need for both.

Thoughts?


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 Post subject: Re: Cadian Shock Troops v1.5
PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2015 11:28 am 
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I dig the removal of multiple sentinels. It not only streamlines things but also has the very practical aspect of making it easier to proxy. Any old sentinel model works then and removes worries about making it clear to your opponents what's what.

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 Post subject: Re: Cadian Shock Troops v1.5
PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 12:36 am 
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Sounds good


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 Post subject: Re: Cadian Shock Troops v1.5
PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2015 9:11 am 
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First Bat Rep up, tough battle for the Cadians. Eldar are so awesome to test against, they punish every mistake.

viewtopic.php?f=84&t=30464&p=577145#p577145


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 Post subject: Re: Cadian Shock Troops v1.5
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 9:34 pm 
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What is the status of this list? Experimental or Developmental?

Cal


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 Post subject: Re: Cadian Shock Troops v1.5
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 10:29 pm 
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CAL001 wrote:
What is the status of this list? Experimental or Developmental?

Cal
I have added "Development" to the front page to make things clearer. Thanks for asking :)

I have also added a new version with the changes suggested before + a "small" change to the Leviathan due to the movement in the Squat lists. Please read and report errors or leave feedback!
I have left the points as they were on the Leviathan even if it might been a small nerf in total, perhaps...right or wrong?


/Uven


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 Post subject: Re: Cadian Shock Troops v1.5
PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2015 1:01 pm 
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The new list is up and running on the splendid army builder :)

http://traitor-legion.appspot.com/choos ... dian_NETEA

Even though I have failed to get any games with them lately...


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 Post subject: Re: Cadian Shock Troops v1.5
PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2016 2:12 pm 
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Looking at making this army list and was wondering what vehicles players are using as the stormlord?


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 Post subject: Re: Cadian Shock Troops v1.5
PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2016 1:19 pm 
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junkstar wrote:
Looking at making this army list and was wondering what vehicles players are using as the stormlord?
I use these
Attachment:
20160312_130622.jpg
20160312_130622.jpg [ 346.13 KiB | Viewed 2781 times ]


But a Baneblade or any of the other superheavy tanks will do I guess. I also think that some other manufacturer made a very good proxy with the right guns in front and all...'


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