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Baneblade Test Thread

 Post subject: Re: Baneblade Test Thread
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 1:38 pm 
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So my buddy and I played a game with this change. He is going to post some info on it soon.

However, in my opinion this isn't really what the tank needs. It never going to compete with the SS main gun wise. The problem stems from the tank having no clear defined role it always excels at. At long, mid, and FF it blows. Its only at close range is it effective.

We talked about some changes that we think would be effective. Hopefully Grim posts them soon.


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 Post subject: Re: Baneblade Test Thread
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 2:29 pm 
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I played a game vs. Richard L's Black Legion yesterday with a Baneblade Company upgraded with a Hydra and Ogryns as my BTS (to ensure they weren't just avoided or managed)..

T1 at range they started plinking away at the Chaos BTS Company camping the Blitz on OW getting a kill. T2 they all but wiped out a Bike Company partially in cover at 30cms after doubling (Hydra could not see), Shadowswords would not have done this so kudos to the Baneblades. T3 they got engaged in ff by the opposising BTS Black Legion Company.... and thanks to appalling luck including a crit on the Commisar carrying tank...wiped out to an Ogryn.

I'd have been happy with their performance had they not been BTS.... but crits is why it's rare to see a SHT Company as a Guard BTS so I can't complain. Next time I test I won't bother with the Ogryns and won't run them as BTS.


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 Post subject: Re: Baneblade Test Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 7:43 am 
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Overall i thought they were pretty good - they put a lot of pressure on my lines, and combined with the double mech infantry did leave me with the hard decision early on of going for the BTS or taking down the the core of your assaulting threat.

One thing i would say though, while in the steel legion list specifically they become much more appealing, i'm not entirely certain i'd bother with them even with the extra shot if the alternate superheavy variants were an option, as baneblade still sits in that 'jack of all trades' role, and if you're wanting a backliner the shadowswords are much more appealing, and for forward offense, the stormhammers and stormswords are imo a better choice. Still, with the double shot i'd potentially consider running them in a core steel legion list at least, and they do become an interesting alternative to the Russ company at that point, especially given they're reasonably cheaper.


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 Post subject: Re: Baneblade Test Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:19 am 
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The Baneblade is the extremely versatile Jack of all trades SHT.... so it can be master of none. At some point we're going to have to accept this equates to some kind of value when list building even if their in game performance is never going to be stellar. With two Bane Cannon shots the tank is more of a threat at all range bands only falling short of a Shadowsword's reach by 15cm, and ff4+ on a 3DC war engine is respectable in an engage.

You'll never include Baneblades in a list and find them disadvantaged by a poor matchup, the same can't be said for the other SHTs, particularly Shadowswords.


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 Post subject: Re: Baneblade Test Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 2:46 pm 
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I think making it better in FF would be right. Either with +2 EA FF or giving it a better FF value.

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 Post subject: Re: Baneblade Test Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 3:11 pm 
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Personally I prefer the idea of beefing the Baneblade's FF rather than long-range shooting. To me its the SHT that is most like the Infantry Tank theory of early WW2. A slow moving tank that supports infantry assaults with close range fire support and heavy armour.


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 Post subject: Re: Baneblade Test Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 3:48 pm 
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If the goal is to "make a Baneblade worth taking at points N in Steel Legion" then yeah, 2x shots may do that (or at least is somewhat more attractive)
If the goal is to "make Baneblades have a distinct role and use" and/or "fits the fluff more" then probably not so much. 2x shots just makes you want to sit and sustain, not lead the assault.

I'm not saying poo poo to either; Just noting the desired victory conditions are not articulated well so we're going to wader into lots of subjectives I feel

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 Post subject: Re: Baneblade Test Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 3:57 pm 
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Has "split the points cost so Baneblades are cheaper" been considered?

Eg:

Baneblade Company - 350 points (may replace Baneblades with Shadowswords for 50pts each)

And have 'em as 150pts for loners.

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 Post subject: Re: Baneblade Test Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 3:57 pm 
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We can't really beef up the Baneblade's ff without infringing on the role and USP of the Stormhammer

The ff of the Stormsword, Doomhammer, and Hellhammer would all also need reviewing as these should probably be better than the Baneblade too being dedicated siege tanks, not to mention Stormlords and Banehammer infantry support tanks.

Please no one point out how ridiculous the Guard SHT naming conventions are, I didn't write them! Yes, Steel Legion only has Baneblades and Shadowswords but other list have a wider variety.


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 Post subject: Re: Baneblade Test Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 3:58 pm 
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Evil and Chaos wrote:
Has "split the points cost so Baneblades are cheaper" been considered?

Eg:

Baneblade Company - 350 points (may replace Baneblades with Shadowswords for 50pts each)

And have 'em as 150pts for loners.


It has, they become far too cheap and silliness ensues.


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 Post subject: Re: Baneblade Test Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 3:59 pm 
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I've always been disappointed they've not released a Swordblade.

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 Post subject: Re: Baneblade Test Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 3:59 pm 
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RugII wrote:
Evil and Chaos wrote:
Has "split the points cost so Baneblades are cheaper" been considered?

Eg:

Baneblade Company - 350 points (may replace Baneblades with Shadowswords for 50pts each)

And have 'em as 150pts for loners.


It has, they become far too cheap and silliness ensues.

Are there some batreps of this nonsense idea being tested?

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 Post subject: Re: Baneblade Test Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 4:03 pm 
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jimmyzimms wrote:
If the goal is to "make a Baneblade worth taking at points N in Steel Legion" then yeah, 2x shots may do that (or at least is somewhat more attractive)
If the goal is to "make Baneblades have a distinct role and use" and/or "fits the fluff more" then probably not so much. 2x shots just makes you want to sit and sustain, not lead the assault.

I'm not saying poo poo to either; Just noting the desired victory conditions are not articulated well so we're going to wader into lots of subjectives I feel


Yes and no..... the 3 twin heavy bolters, demolisher cannon, auto-cannon, and two las-cannon makes advancing to 30cms and then sitting pretty still far more appealing and effective than just sitting with limited avenues of easily avoided fire in your own deployment zone.


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 Post subject: Re: Baneblade Test Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 4:09 pm 
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I never once said sit in the deployment zone.

regardless are we trying to fit fluff, give it a role relative to the other variants, or make it actually usable here? I think that the 2x BB cannon shot works well on #3!

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 Post subject: Re: Baneblade Test Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 4:18 pm 
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Evil and Chaos wrote:
RugII wrote:
Evil and Chaos wrote:
Has "split the points cost so Baneblades are cheaper" been considered?

Eg:

Baneblade Company - 350 points (may replace Baneblades with Shadowswords for 50pts each)

And have 'em as 150pts for loners.


It has, they become far too cheap and silliness ensues.

Are there some batreps of this nonsense idea being tested?


I can replay them....but since spamming Imperial SHTs is already an effective tactic even with Baneblades costed as they and their current stat line it shouldn't take too much to demonstrate.

Baneblade Company + 50pt upgrade BTS
4 * Baneblade Company
8 * Lone Baneblades

23 Baneblades in 13 activations!

Take lots of any War Engine and they become frighteningly effective, Simon H's left of field tournament winning Ork Fort list demonstrated this aptly!


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