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Steel Legion Feedback

 Post subject: Re: Steel Legion Feedback
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 2:04 pm 
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in fact they're still not used.

A point which indicates you should leapfrog them and go for 550pts, IMO.

(And I think they'd still settled comfortably at an eventual 500pts in 2 more years).

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 Post subject: Re: Steel Legion Feedback
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 2:52 pm 
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TBH what I think is needed is a new procedure for modifying Approved lists, different from the procedure for going from Developmental to Approved. We also need to decide how much weigth to give to EUK experiences.

(SL is obviously more played than the Necron list, so it's not automatic that if we accept EUK experiences on this that it should apply to LM, just as an aside.)


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 Post subject: Re: Steel Legion Feedback
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 3:19 pm 
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Here's a potentially silly question. In terms of the fluff (or at least conceptually), what is the point of the Baneblade? What's it for? Infantry I get, artillery I get, tanks I get, sentinels I get, vultures and valkyries I get. The shadowsword is a "cheap titan killer". OK so other than filling a size category slot, what does a Baneblade bring to the table tactically?

(And I'm fine with answers like "ego for the general" or "morale for the troops". Or even "no real purpose at all other than bigness". Just so we know what niche it's intended for. Hell, answering that one might make things more clear. Like if the point is that troops are inspired by its presence, then maybe that's what we do.)


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 Post subject: Re: Steel Legion Feedback
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 3:31 pm 
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according to my sources (read: my mate Mike) the baneblade was a light tank during the dark age of technology....

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 Post subject: Re: Steel Legion Feedback
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 3:34 pm 
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what does a Baneblade bring to the table tactically?

Medium range good weight in firepower, superior short range firefight capability.

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 Post subject: Re: Steel Legion Feedback
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 3:37 pm 
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The BaneBlade is literally a bigger Leman Russ; it's not even really a heavy tank by most definitions of the word, as it doesn't deliver more firepower than it's own weight in medium tanks (Leman Russ in this example)

I guess in that respect it's the KV-1 to the Leman Russ' T-34; much better armored but costing much more, being slower and not having appreciably more firepower.


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 Post subject: Re: Steel Legion Feedback
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 3:46 pm 
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While I think 175 points is closer to the correct cost of Current-BaneBlade (I assume SHT companies would drop in cost as well, with BaneBlade -> ShadowSword upgrades being 25 pts each or something?) this is giving Steel Legion a slightly cheaper activation, though with 100pt Sentinel formations, that wouldn't be too much of a concern.


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 Post subject: Re: Steel Legion Feedback
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 8:05 pm 
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I think that those changes for Hellhound, Griffon and Russ upgrades are Ok. I'd prefer to go down 50 points. Even then I will consider carefully to take them. I would love to see them as independent units, but this would change the list too much. Emperor for 150 is ok. Arty Comp I agree with Ben about 550 points. For BB i like the 2-Shot version. Alternativly the cost turndown.

And I want to see these changes to spread out to other lists.


Last edited by Koshi on Tue Oct 29, 2013 10:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Steel Legion Feedback
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 9:15 pm 
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Rug wrote:
Why do we need to be so dogmatic? Imperial Guard lists are far easier to write from scratch and tinker with than almost any other race, they are comparatively straight forward to work with. Marines, Tau, Necrons etc have a bucket of special rules which adjust the core mechanics of the game. The Steel Legion list has always been balanced (but not internally) and is well supported by lots of players. How will a procedure improve the SL list specifically? Lets limit discussion to the Steel Legion list.


Because currently you need 6 batreps from 3 different groups if you want to do anything with the Steel Legion, if we're going to follow the normal procedure. I'm basically saying the same thing you are.


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 Post subject: Re: Steel Legion Feedback
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 9:27 pm 
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actually according to the charter, minor changes to an approved list require agreement from the list chair to maintain approved status, so when changes have been decided on it's Steve54's call whether they're minor enough to require a move to developmental

given that most of the changes have been playtested extensively at EUK events over the last year (I've personally played over 40 games with them) I think it's pretty likely that they can be signed off without issue, baneblades notwithstanding

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 Post subject: Re: Steel Legion Feedback
PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 8:50 pm 
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How about a different take on the issues:

- Artillery companies: make them 6 pieces at 400 points, with the option of adding 3 more at 150 pts.

We have allowed our SL player to play it like that for over 6 months now, and we are all quite happy about it. We even see Basilisks again.

Edit: Lowering points cost for artillery companies is a not a useful evolution. As long as they are priced above 500 points, nobody will take them. Even then, they would remain a very cornercase choice, as that's a lot of points for a shooting formation with no assault capability, that needs tons of protection. Besides, a Manticore remains a Manticore and should not become a free gretchin just because you have tons of them. For this reason I disagree in following the route of EUK of just reducing point cost, which in any case does nt solve the problem.

Concerning the question of precedent of going from 3 platoons to 2 platoons in a company, both infantry compnies (mech and foot) only have 2 platoons of troops with a commander, with the upgrade as an option. Why Leman Russes and Basilisks didnt get the same treatment originally, I really dont know.



- Baneblade: I dont have a problem with current Baneblade. Very effective defensive choice when in a company with sentinel support, very effective in singleton with a commissar to hold an objective.

It's just not a very offense-oriented choice, which makes it poor in combination with Mech inf. or Russ companies. I believe if the defensive options of the list (artillery company for example) were better, the Baneblade company would find new uses. It has on our tables.

If the Baneblade must be considered for a change, why not make its main battlecannon 1 BP? On sustain thats a potent threat even alone, in a company it becomes interesting, and does not really strongly affect its short range ability when it doubles (as the rolls at 7+ are pretty worthless).

Edit: Just read Blacklegion's proposal to give similar weapons the Blast ability. I like it.

- The emperor: I have the same opinion that E&C over trying out slow and steady limited to turn 2. Some ships would have to be seriously repointed for balance, but its the right way to go imho.

- The upgrades: As long as the main companies are so expensive, any price for them makes them dubious choices. If the Leman russ company was 450 for 7 tanks, then the upgrade for LRs would be taken sometimes for a fat BTS. Etc. They dont need a change imho, or at least not a price change, because that wont make the issue any different.

Of course, there is the Griffon. It should just be 1-3 Griffons at 25 pts. each, and there you go. Then it becomes either a hydra or a Griffon for garrisons. fine by me.

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Last edited by LordotMilk on Thu Oct 31, 2013 1:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Steel Legion Feedback
PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 11:55 pm 
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Evil and Chaos wrote:
Quote:
what does a Baneblade bring to the table tactically?

Medium range good weight in firepower, superior short range firefight capability.


Also much more resilient to attrition than Leman Russes.

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