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Steel Legion Feedback

 Post subject: Re: Steel Legion Feedback
PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 1:32 pm 
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Also, discount for Russ Companies please. :-)

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 Post subject: Re: Steel Legion Feedback
PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 1:36 pm 
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Also, add Ordinatus Armageddon to the Armageddon Steel Legion.


Also, change loads of stuff for no reason other than whim.


Also, add Space Marines.

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 Post subject: Re: Steel Legion Feedback
PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 2:01 pm 
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Evil and Chaos wrote:


Also, add Space Marines.


Only if they're contained within other space marines. Maybe call them Matryoshka formations.


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 Post subject: Re: Steel Legion Feedback
PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 2:05 pm 
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Ben, stop poking the tiger cage. :D

I'm not dead set against any one change, but I do see a problem with all of these changes at the same time. Maybe dropping the points won't help in encouraging the use of those particular units, or worse it may help with some and not with others in which case we have no idea what is helping and what isn't. Given that Imperial Guard is a) not going anywhere, b) the most popular army played, c) already has an approved status, and d) is easier to encourage playtesting with, it seems one or two changes at a time is the best way to go about it. Drop a 2 x whatever on the Baneblades and see what data come in on the forum. If it works, move on to the next idea, and so on.

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 Post subject: Re: Steel Legion Feedback
PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 7:47 pm 
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Also use the Steel Legion Planetary Defence Force army list instead :D

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 Post subject: Re: Steel Legion Feedback
PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 8:04 pm 
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Quote:
Ben, stop poking the tiger cage.

Add Psyber Tigers.

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 Post subject: Re: Steel Legion Feedback
PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 9:05 pm 
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Surely all baneblades should get a MW CC hit form its tank commander with his power sword ? All that driving closer should pay off ;)

Seriousness, 2 shots or slight points decrease would make me keen to try them out again.


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 Post subject: Re: Steel Legion Feedback
PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 9:23 pm 
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and those tigers Ben mentions too. We need those ;)

Honestly 2 shots or a single MW shot is probably fine. I think they're useful as is but like many things they may or may not be super mega optimal to the GT scenario but are ace in other scenarios. I tend to play more narrative games anyways so take that opinion of them with a grain of salt [shrugs]. I really wished that Chroma went further with his Total War supplement as I'd rather see more diverse game types being played more often around here. The GT is good for specific balance and play-ability testing but just because some combinations are slightly better for that doesn't always mean we need to tweak a ton of stats.

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I cannot get behind Battleship changes as they, well... to put it frank are pretty much worthless in the GT. Either we fix them across the board or leave it be.

It depends and I disagree. Remember the grand tournament army lists are meant to be balanced for 2-5k on a 4 by 6 table. I wouldn't bother much with a Battleship at 2-3k but at 4-5k with the greater density of troops might make it a reasonable choice for 150. Epic-UK have dropped the costs of the poor slow and steady and ork spacecraft, but we haven't. Others could be changed in time if appropriate but that'd br different discussions up to individual army champions


I think you're misunderstanding me. I will admit that my comment has a high degree of hyperbole so really my fault on that. I'm more thinking that Battleships are a general problem in the game already and fixing one list is a non-starter. Let's just tackle that as an across the board deal separately. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Steel Legion Feedback
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 10:42 am 
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I would like to see MW version, however the 2 shots sounds promising aswell, as the more I think on it.

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 Post subject: Re: Steel Legion Feedback
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 11:03 am 
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On "Slow and Steady", changing it to turn 2 instead of turn 3 might be an interesting idea.

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 Post subject: Re: Steel Legion Feedback
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 11:26 am 
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I'm not an experienced player, so I really don't have much to add. It does seem like the Steel Legion list has lots of units that won't see the light of day. But I urge urge urge anybody who makes these changes to do them one at a time, very carefully.

If an artillery company gets cheaper or gains capabilities, or something to make them more worth taking, then lists will shift, which means counters will be taken also, new list concepts might pop up, etc. That's all fine, but it might impact other units as well. So let's be cautious, as this really is one of the premier lists.


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 Post subject: Re: Steel Legion Feedback
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 11:45 am 
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I think giving it MW is not a boost in the right direction, it would still be a better option taking shadowswords for single, high power shots

my beef with the baneblade is that it frankly sucks at ranges over 45cm, an extra shot on the main gun would help improve this, as well as giving increased capacity to strip shields for accompanying shadowswords (probably the best synergy I can think of) and mean that when the baneblade company finds itself out of position, it can still do a reasonable amount of damage at a distance

this also helps boost the baneblade close up as more shots is definitely what it needs

compared to the tank company, which is faster and has no fire arcs, not to mention tanks not blocking each others line of sight (a weakness commonly exploited against my superheavies by the likes of dptdexys ;)) the baneblade is very much worse, firepower wise....

at ranges over 45cm, a russ company will score 2.5 times as many hits (5 vs 2) on average
at ranges over 30cm, a russ company will score nearly twice as many hits (8.33 vs 5) on average
at ranges under 30cm, a russ company will score 50% more hits (15 vs 10) on average

this is assuming firing at a mixed target so all AT/AP values can be used, so plenty of simplification (before people start criticism ;))

this is for 150 points extra, which also includes a speed increase and removing the risk of a single critical blowing up a 3DC war engine.....

as they stand currently, unless I'm desperate for the points, I can't see myself using baneblades over a tank company and that makes me a sad panda :(

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 Post subject: Re: Steel Legion Feedback
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 2:02 pm 
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agreed, none of the proposed changes are going to break the list :)

I don't see an extra 15cm on the range of the baneblade being worthwhile myself, it doesn't really add much IMO, I've never found myself saying 'oh I wish these cannons were longer range' ;)

but I can definitely get behind the points drop, I think it's a solid suggestion

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