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[fanlist] Tallarn Desert Raiders

 Post subject: Re: [fanlist] Tallarn Desert Raiders
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:11 am 
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Umm Warengine with 25cm movement in a homogeneous formation. Not sure how we can garrison that from the rules (you mentioned 2 of 3 scenarios for the life of me I can't figure out) :(

FAQ (footnote 81) spells it out even clearer
"Can War Engines garrison?
Only if they are in a formation that includes units with a speed of 0cm or immobile, or if they are in a formation where half or more of the units (rounding up) are scouts."

Totally willing to admit I could be really dumb here but I can't see how we're garrisoning knights with lightning strike. I mean it's probably staring me in the face and I'm flat out missing it.

Got better wording? Me dumb.

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 Post subject: Re: [fanlist] Tallarn Desert Raiders
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:34 am 
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When a “Special Rule” is written rule books and FAQs go out the window since the new rule is generally special on account of it being an exception to the rule book; so our focus should be the content of the Lightening Raid rule.

A War Engines with 0cm move can garrison, as can War Engines mixed with units with scout, therefore no one can make the statement “War Engines can’t Garrison”, they can.

The rules as they are written describe more circumstances when a War Engine can garrison than when it cannot.

So there is strong precedent for War Engines garrisoning.

The Eldar “May Not Garrison” rule overrides the rules as written in the rule book even though there is no mention of special rules being an exception to what’s written in the rule book in the original rues or Swordwind.

The new Tallarn rule:

“Lightning Raid: For every complete 1500 points of army selected, the Tallarn player may choose to garrison one formation that is not normally eligible to garrison. Formations that garrison using this rule may not start the game on Overwatch.”

War Engines can garrison but are not usually eligible to do so.

There is precedent for special army rules to supersede the main rule book and FAQs.

The Lightening Raid rule is changing the rules for Inf and AVs garrisoning as written in the main rulebook without specifying these unit types. Likewise there is no exclusion or inclusion for War Engines either.

I don’t think it’s unreasonable to assume that as the Lightening Raid rule is written at least a few would assume that the Knight units in the list could garrison, particularly those not as familiar with the rules and the intent of them than you are.


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 Post subject: Re: [fanlist] Tallarn Desert Raiders
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:53 am 
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Ok thanks this makes more sense. When I'm saying"can't garrison" I'm writing for from the context of "units in the list according to 6.1". You're writing from a more general context so what I'm reading isn't the same as you're writing therefore confusion. For the life of me I couldn't figure out how you were getting two scenarios. ;D

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 Post subject: Re: [fanlist] Tallarn Desert Raiders
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:46 am 
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jimmyzimms wrote:
Pencanenas wrote:
I'm spanish so I don't understand everything prerfectly. When you say "For every complete 1500 points of army selected, the Tallarn player may choose[...]" does it include allied forces?

It would, in that yes that wording would mean it applies to everything on the list. However there's nothing in the allies section that is allowed to garrison per the rulebook.


I mean that if do allied forces count for those complete 1500 points? Not if that allied forces can garrison. I understand that yes they count.

jimmyzimms wrote:
Pencanenas wrote:
And if you have a 2995 Army, does it still grant 2 additional garrisoned units?

Nope just the 1, hence the "complete" vs the standard "per N points, or part thereof, in the army" wording convention (see the commissar faction specific rule for example). Again, if people have suggested verbage, happy to entertain :) We're here to be clear, after all


And why? I mean that it doesn't sounds logic that 5 or, 10 or 25 points prevents you somthing that you can get consuming all the points up to the limit. I understand that the intention is that armys of 2k points don't garrison 2 units, but a 2995 army should be able.


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 Post subject: Re: [fanlist] Tallarn Desert Raiders
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:34 pm 
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The normal convention is that if you agree to play a 3000pt game with an opponent, or enter a 3000pt tournament, you would abide by all the rules and restrictions of 3000pt army regardless of what your points total actually is.

This allows a tournament organiser to set the points limit at 2999pts, allowing pretty much the same number of units but with greater restrictions for army list selection and special rules etc.


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 Post subject: Re: [fanlist] Tallarn Desert Raiders
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:17 pm 
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Pencanenas wrote:
jimmyzimms wrote:
Pencanenas wrote:
I'm spanish so I don't understand everything prerfectly. When you say "For every complete 1500 points of army selected, the Tallarn player may choose[...]" does it include allied forces?

It would, in that yes that wording would mean it applies to everything on the list. However there's nothing in the allies section that is allowed to garrison per the rulebook.


I mean that if do allied forces count for those complete 1500 points? Not if that allied forces can garrison. I understand that yes they count.


It's on the total list, not just tallarn models. So if you took 1000 points of allies and 2000 points of everything else, you would have 2x additional garrisons (of inf/av/lv units)

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 Post subject: Re: [fanlist] Tallarn Desert Raiders
PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 12:12 pm 
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we're on army forge now! See OP

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