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NetEA Blood Angels V3.0 list

 Post subject: Re: NetEA Blood Angels V3.0 list
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:13 pm 
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crak wrote:
The Thunderhawk didn't intercept. That was after.

I still cannot understand how you managed to put any AA shots on the Bombers with the Thunderhawk.
You brought it on after the bombers had activated so it could only fire its AA in the end phase if it stayed grounded ,but you Air Assaulted with it the next turn so it could not have stayed grounded and the other one was destroyed in an engagement ? .
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I'm clearly not the greatest. Yes I was misunderstanding the broken engagement loss. Mostly had a vague idea that they would disappear if I won the engagement. The effect would've been the same. Thank you.


The effect could have been massively different, in some games it could mean the difference between getting the BTS or not, even having to use multiple formations to finish them when they should already be destroyed and missing out on using those formations to do other things.
your welcome.


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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Blood Angels V3.0 list
PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 2:33 pm 
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Ok I am confusing Intercept and CAP. I knew it couldn't CAP. But I'd been intercepting with one in emergencies. Now rereading I see it can't intercept. Thank you.


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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Blood Angels V3.0 list
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:09 am 
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kyussinchains wrote:
I can consider adding the whirlwinds back in if they are really such a loss to the list, but I'm not budging on storm talons, they've been around in the fluff for ~5 years now and are the de-facto standard marine aircraft

there is absolutely nothing preventing you from proxying your existing thunderbolt models as storm talons (and indeed this has been happening a lot in the local scene lately)


You can keep the Storm Talons in the list, really don't care. That doesn't mean you need to take the Thunderbolts and Marauders out. I really don't care that GW has changed the background (or added another model we have to buy) yet again as this is Epic, not 40k. Are we adding Primaris Space next? Yes, I'm a little pissed that I can't play with my toys I've painted, this has happened to me to many times in the GW world, didn't really expect this to happen in Epic.

No I don't want to proxy anything. My Predators are now on the shelf, but only because I was able to get bits to make Baal Predators. I don't want to play the Codex Marine list, because well then they are not Blood Angels. I'll use this list the next time I put a force on the table, but most likely that's not for another month or so.

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Blood Angels V3.0 list
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:21 pm 
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You're making a mountain out of a molehill man. Just use Imperial Navy flyers in your game then. You're acting like the hobby police are going to show up an burn your toys or something. Just for a tournament or balance testing that's not going to happen. Relax :)

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Blood Angels V3.0 list
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:23 pm 
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mdivancic wrote:
You can keep the Storm Talons in the list, really don't care. That doesn't mean you need to take the Thunderbolts and Marauders out. I really don't care that GW has changed the background (or added another model we have to buy) yet again as this is Epic, not 40k. Are we adding Primaris Space next? Yes, I'm a little pissed that I can't play with my toys I've painted, this has happened to me to many times in the GW world, didn't really expect this to happen in Epic.


You can play with them, there is nothing stopping you using whatever models you like provided your opponent is okay with it.... these army lists are intended to provide a balanced experience for tournament play. In friendly games providing your opponent has no issue with it, then fill your boots and use whatever you like

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No I don't want to proxy anything. My Predators are now on the shelf, but only because I was able to get bits to make Baal Predators. I don't want to play the Codex Marine list, because well then they are not Blood Angels. I'll use this list the next time I put a force on the table, but most likely that's not for another month or so.


That's your issue then, if you're unwilling to use your lovingly painted thunderbolt or baal predator miniatures with storm talon or predator destructor stats, in a game of abstraction, then there is nothing I can say to convince you otherwise and perhaps we will have to agree to disagree :)

Nothing I have removed from the list is specific to the blood angels.... when most folks think of blood angels, they probably think of lots of assault marines, Death Company, Furioso dreadnoughts, stormravens, baal predators, and land raider redeemers.... none of the iconic models have been removed from the army, whirlwinds and marauder bombers are in a dozen other lists, the codex astartes list exists as the generic marine list, the others all have restrictions in order to create a sometimes subtly (raven guard), sometimes significantly (Imperial fists/Space Wolves) different playstyle, none of them should be codex plus extra stuff. If you're unwilling to play codex marines and have 95% of the toys you seem to want, then I don't know what to tell you really

The v2.4 list still exists, I'm not deleting it, if you like it and your opponents are fine with you using it, then by all means carry on, I won't be sending the NetEA police round to confiscate your models ;)

If you want to take the v3.0 list out for a run and see how it feels, I'd be very interested to hear your thoughts, but I'd like to keep discussion moving forwards and focused on the current list now

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Blood Angels V3.0 list
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:06 pm 
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I don't want it to feel like ganging up, as in fact for me personally 'storm whatever theyre called' are not at all part of my idea of a blood angels at, that's just because they weren't around the last time I played 40k or read any of their lore.

What I will say though is:
1) We have to accommodate different people's views, and in this case it's apparently important to many people that there are approved homes (lists) for storm thingies and this is the army they best belong in
2) Like it or not, a list that is codex plus blood angels unique stuff will never be approved - for everything added something should really be taken away. This principle is probably not strongly enforced enough as it is, and is especially important for marines who have extremely flexible force organisation choices.
3) Whatever disagreements there are in a list's options, the contents should be driven by the list preamble - its theme. If a list represents a heavily close assault focused army (unlike codex) then it should shepherd the player to play it as such, and whilst that doesn't mean removing all units that are not assault marines, it may well mean restricting availability of options that work against it or would be overpowered in conjunction with the things that have been added. Most armies can do this with subtle changes to core:support ratios, but marines cant so have to remove options, change formation size, relegate solo formations to upgrades etc etc

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Blood Angels V3.0 list
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 11:02 pm 
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Kyrt wrote:
2) Like it or not, a list that is codex plus blood angels unique stuff will never be approved - for everything added something should really be taken away. This principle is probably not strongly enforced enough as it is, and is especially important for marines who have extremely flexible force organisation choices.


This is a very good point you're making and all sub-AC:s should read it. Thanks for that gem.

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Blood Angels V3.0 list
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:36 pm 
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Hey! New to the forums, wanted to join and ask a question. I really like the feel of the list so far compared to the previous version. But was there a reason that assault formations were denied the use of stormravens? It's something they've used in the fluff and it seems like it would cover some of the issues of dreads in the formation, allowing them to keep up at a cheaper price point then a thunderhawk for smaller formations and allowing large formations of both assault marines with attached dreads that don't have to foot slog.

Of course, this assumes that they would be allowed two to a vehicle and not one, but in my mind, that doesn't stick out as being broken.


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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Blood Angels V3.0 list
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:29 pm 
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I suspect it's an oversight. BA absolutely use assault marines with them. Even if this particular lit decides to not build formations to support that, as it's the canonical definition of the unit in EA, we should get the stats correct here and now otherwise we'll force another list that supports it to instead use a custom version (Storm Ravens are a Codex unit available to all chapters since 6-7th edition)

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Blood Angels V3.0 list
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:43 pm 
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I'm fine for assault marines to take storm ravens, however as discussed earlier, I think giving them access to dreads too is problematic from a gameplay POV (4 assault marines and 2 furioso dreads is pretty powerful for 300pts, plus the dreads are generally the better option than adding more assault marine stands (better save, macro attacks etc) especially if you can fly them around in storm ravens to negate the mobility aspect.....

I'm happy either way but I'm not so sure about them having both storm ravens AND dreadnoughts.... but then again I guess 2 of each is 250pts on top of the base formation..... so maybe, yeah

the other option is to drop the extra stand upgrade from the formation?

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Blood Angels V3.0 list
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:57 pm 
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I'm not actually sure I'd worry as you point out it's getting spendy quick. If it is an issue though perhaps a single dread is allowed only?
not a terribly new thing that type of upgrade restriction

Formation Assault:
4 assault marine units
upgrades (and can be taken. only once per upgrade):
Dreads, Assault (+2 assault marines), Storm Ravens (enough storm ravens to transport the entire formation)

However all that being said, I don't care if this list gets Assault Marines in Ravens as opposed to getting the stats for the Storm Raven correct from the get-go. The NetEA policy is that units / weapons have the same stats regardless of list if they're named the same. So without (Transport 1 Assault Marine) then you force the next list that uses them to make a customized "Named" Storm Raven entry and that makes Dave grumpy (ier) ;)

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Blood Angels V3.0 list
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:26 am 
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If there's ANY situation in which we should follow the Rule of Cool, it's in allowing a swarm of Dreads being flown around and dropped on the enemy!


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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Blood Angels V3.0 list
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:18 pm 
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The Iron Hands can fly entire formations around in thunderhawks already ;)

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Blood Angels V3.0 list
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:54 pm 
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Aye Iron Hands have all sorts of hot airborne macro death

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Blood Angels V3.0 list
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:31 pm 
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kyussinchains wrote:
The Iron Hands can fly entire formations around in thunderhawks already ;)

Image
IH 4k is where proper dreading happens.

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