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Space Wolves 3.0 Approved

 Post subject: Re: Space Wolves 3.0 Approved
PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2016 11:46 pm 
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For rallying, if you want, you could put in a line that they rally on 1+. Simple amendment.


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 Post subject: Re: Space Wolves 3.0 Approved
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 7:09 pm 
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Dobbsy wrote:
For rallying, if you want, you could put in a line that they rally on 1+. Simple amendment.


Dobbsy wrote:
The issue of "rush even when holding" came up years ago with the World Eaters rules. Getting to act how you want (engage) when you've failed to act was sort of counter to the rules IIRC.

True.
I think I just leave it as it is for now. Giving them a boost would also mean higher points...


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 Post subject: Re: Space Wolves 3.0 Approved
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 6:42 am 
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Sorry, life kept me away from forums for a bit, but I promised you I’d post some army lists I’ve used. Here are three I’ve used, one of which I hope to use again in two weeks, and one that I was planning to use but may discard. These are used in competitive-but-not tournament play. That is, both sides are playing to win, but no one is going to try and span an overpowered unit.

Typical (3000pts, 10 activations)

My “typical” list is built to be a Great Company acting independently. Small bits may change--the Hunters may move around, the supreme commander may remain on a Grey Hunter so the terminator is more expendable, or some scouts may get sniper--.But the gist is:

Great Company: 625
*6 Grey Hunters; 2 Long Fangs; 1 Terminator w/ Battle Leader cum Wolf Lord upgrade
*4 Rhinos; 1 Land Raider

Blood Claws: 300
*8 Blood Claws + Wolf Priest Upgrade
*4 Rhinos

Skyclaws Assault Pack: 350
*8 Skyclaws + Wolf Priest Upgrade

Wolf Scouts: 225
*4 Wolf Scouts

Whirlwinds: 375
*4 Whirlwinds; 1 Hunter

Predators: 325
*4 Predator (Annihilators); 1 Hunter

Landspeeder (Tornados): 200

Landspeeders (default): 200

Thunderhawk (intended for Skyclaws): 225

Thunderbolts: 150


Anti-Eldar (3000 pts, 9 Activations)

In my one game against the Eldar, I decided I needed more firepower and less assault. So I went for two Great Companies. I lost badly, but I think that had more to do with a (foolish) gambit I tried rather than the list. I *think* the list would have done better if I’d stuck to my original plan. But this error did teach me something very humorous about Long Fangs.

Basically, I looked at the opening board and, rather than using my original plan of trying to exploit the Wolves’ offensive/defensive Commander ability, I decided to try and “stuff” the Eldar warp gate. The combat went as expected, and we both got to enjoy the one-on-one fight between a terminator stand and the Avatar. (Stands were pushed around to allow this, “for cinematic reasons”.) But! I had not properly anticipated just how many macro weapons that “guardian” formation was going to explode out of the gate with. (Wraiths......) The Eldar made the statistically correct number of their saves, and so did I. (Meaning I made none of them, since my expensive power armor is no more useful against macro weapons than damp tissue paper.) After a few more rude shots by the falcon formation that activated next, my once-mighty Great Company was reduced to a single Long Fang stand cowering in an office tower.

Why was this funny? Because we got to learn just what an annoying pain in the >***< a lone Long Fang stand can be. He’s got three shots on sustained fire (from cover) every turn. That amount of firepower can kill things, but if you are the Eldar do you really want to use up an entire formations’ firepower to kill one stand? Especially when there is another Great Company or predator formation closing in on the same position? Lucky the Longtooth lived to the bitter end, despite the unkind words hurled at him by the Eldar troops in the streets below. Of course when the Eldar finally won the battle, the Aspect Warriors probably dragged him out of his building and did horrible, horrible things to him.


First Great Company: 625
*6xGrey Hunters, 2x Long Fangs, 1xTerminator w/ Battle Leader cum Wolf Lord upgrade
*4x Rhinos, 1x Land Raider

Second Great Company: 500
*6xGrey Hunters w/ Battle Leader; 2x Long Fangs
*3xRhinos; 1xLand Raider

Sky Claw Pack: 350
*8x Sky Claws w/ Wolf Priest

Predators: 325
*4xPredator Annihilators; 1xHunter

Whirlwinds: 375
*4xWhirlwinds; 1xHunter

Landspeeders: (standard): 200

Landspeeders: (4 tornados and one typhoon) 225

Thunderhawk(intended for skyclaws): 225

Thunderbolts: 175



Reaver Titan (3000 pts, 9 Activations)

I used this list for no other reason than I wanted to try using a Reaver Titan. It proved a match for an Imperial army that I knew would be using Warhounds, and I hope to try it again in about two weeks against what will likely be either another Imperial army with Warhounds or a Feral Ork army with at least one Steam Gargant.

Reaver Titan: 650

Great Company: 575
*6 Gray Hunters w/ Battle Leader cum Wolf Lord; 2xLong Fangs
*4xRhinas; 1xHunter

Blood Claws: 300
*8xBlood Claws w/ Wolf Priest
*4xRhinos

Sky Claws: 350
*8xSKyclaws + Wolf Priest

Predators: 325
*4xAnnihilators; 1xHunter

Landspeeders (standard): 200

Landspeeders (5xTornados): 200

Thunderhawk (intended for skyclaws): 225

Thunderbolts: 175

Drop Pods (3000 pts; 10 activations w/ spacecraft)

I actually haven’t taken this one, but thought I’d show you what I’d had in mind for a game that might have gone that way. The concept for this one was the first Great Company and hunter/support packs were a force on the ground, who found themselves outnumbered and in trouble. The second Great Company and supports were to be a second force dropping into the fight as a rescue force. (Audible bugle calls were to be optional, and only used if I felt they might annoy my opponent. Where is fun in the cavalry riding to the rescue if there are no bugle calls?)

The rescuers would drop in “behind the lines” , using the defensive abilities of multiple Battle Leaders’ (which I always thought to be very pack-like) to support themselves in their possibly isolated position when the enemy counter-attacked. The Battle Leader’s defensive ability is gone now, however, so I’ll rethink what I want any drop army to do.

Strike Cruiser: 200

Great Company in Drop Pods: 350
*6 Grey Hunters with Battle Leader; 2xBloodclaws;

Terminators in Drop Pods: 375
*4xTerminators with Battle Leader

Blood Claws in Drop Pods: 300
*8xBlood Claws with Wolf Priest

Great Company: 500
*6xGrey Hunters with Battle leacer cum Wolf Lord; 2xLong Fangs
*4x Rhinos; 1xRazorback

Long Fangs: 325
*4xLong Fangs
*2xRhinos; 1xRazorback

Blood Claws: 300
*8xBlood Claws w/ Wolf Priest
*4xRhinos

Wolf Scouts: 275
*4xScouts + 2xSniper

Landspeeder (standard): 200

Thunderbolts: 175



And there you go. (Sorry, I know that was a lot of reading.)

-S'Cipio


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 Post subject: Re: Space Wolves 3.0 Approved
PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2016 7:37 pm 
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Thanks for the long read.
Always interesting to know how other people build their armies. Fun to know that you actually have a little background story for some of the builds :)

I noticed that the "big" difference between my own builds and yours is in the number of activations (probably because you have more upgrades to your formations then I usually have)
With any assault orientated army I think activation advantage is one of the keys to winning so I rarely go below 11 activations. That usually makes me cutting away upgrades to larger formations etc, which is kind of sad...

By looking at the different options I think your first list looks best, perhaps I would try and fit a Long Fang unit in there instead of the predators and cut some upgrades to get another activation but that is just my opinion :)

Will post my "standard" list also in a little while


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 Post subject: Re: Space Wolves 3.0 Approved
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 3:56 pm 
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Brought "Drop Wolves" to NEAT this year. Went 2-1 and made it to one of the two finals tables so I though I'd share my list and feedback from the games.

Drop Wolves List

Strike Cruise - 200

Great Company w Supreme Commander and Venerable Dreadnought (BTS) - 425

Great Company w Captain and CC Dread - 350

Great Company w Chaplain and CC Dread - 350

Wolf Guard Terminators w Chaplain - 375

Thunderhawk - 200

Thunderhawk - 200

Landspeeders - 200

Swiftclaws w 3 attack bikes - 200

Fenrisian Wolves - 150

Thunderbolt Squadron - 175

Thunderbolt Squadron - 175

Game 1: 3-0 Win over Steel Legion. BTS, T&H, Blitz.

Steel Legion List

Regimental HQ + Hydra + Griffons
Mechanised Infantry Company + Hydra
Super Heavy Tank Company (2xBB, 1 SS)
Basilisk Battery
Sentinel Squad
Sentinel Squad
SHT Platoon (SS)
Flak Battery
Thunderbolt Squadron
Warhound Titan
Warhound Titan

The initial drop went well, allowing for a follow up combined assault with the two Great Companies that broke the BTS and allowed for it to be picked off by Tbolts later on. Two air assaults w the terminators and my BTS destroyed two single Warhounds. The Steel Legion list contained a SHT Company of 2 Baneblades and a Shadowsword that I ended up needing to let move freely as I wasnt going to be able to reallocate the resources for a high percentage assault against it. Turn three ended with an air assault with my BTS against a Mechanized Infantry company that had T&H and was denying me TSNP. I tried to do a clipping assault, but lost and ended up needing to contest the T&H with the Fenrisian Wolves.

Game 2: 2-1 win over For Iolarion. BTS and Blitz.

For Iolarion List

Warlock Titan w Autarch
Phantom Titan w Webway
Revenant Titan
Revenant Titan
Ranger Troupe
Wraithlord Troupe
War Walker Troupe

This was one of the mutually bloodiest games I've played. We started with a combined 19 activations and only 7 by the end. The game ended on turn three after the Swiftclaws rallied to contest the Eldar's T&H.

The game started off with a roller coaster. I held off dropping to prevent the warlock, phantom, and two revenant titans from having the big targets of my great companies. However, I made poor movement with my Fenrisian wolves and speeders and lost both. It would have been great having them later in the game. Delaying my cruiser meant my drop missed any targets because the WWs and WLs were held off board. I still managed to pod in close enough to get a combined assault against the Phantom Titan and destroy it in combat using a great company and terminators which ultimately kept the two units in reserves out of the game. On turn two, I engaged a revenant w the terminators and won and assaulted the warlock with two great companies. I lost this engagement and lost nearly all of my BTS except for the Venerable and my SC. The remaining Revenant would ultimately hunt them down and destroy them. While my formations were in pieces, the Eldar only had two formations left once Tbolts broke the Warlock who lost its shields in the engagement. The game ended with a dreadnaught shooting with his assault cannon at the Warlock after it rallied on Turn 3, killing it and the same great company holding the Eldar's blitz.

Game 3: Turn 4 tie 2-2. BTS and T&H. Lost in points by 325 to Codex Astartes.

Space Marines List (I think. Dave could clarify)

Devastators w Rhinos
Devastators w Rhinos
Terminators w Librarian
Thunderhawk
Predators
Scouts w Rhinos
Landspeeders
Tactical w Supreme Commander + Hunter + Rhinos
Tactical w Chaplain
Thunderbolt Squadron
Thunderbolt Squadron
Thunderbolt Squadron

Dave went first and managed to get his BTS out from under the Orbital. My drop still went well enough, taking out some scouts and devastators. However, a retained engagement with a great company against the landspeeders had the dice turn and end in defeat. Dave was able to swing out and pick apart the two drop formations with efficiency after that. The trade was I managed to air assault his BTS w my terminators, breaking it and setting it up for another air assault with my BTS to put it down. Both armies maneuvered back and forth, ending turn three 1-1 (BTS v Blitz) and ending turn four 2-2 before going to points. That's where the lost great companies came back to really haunt me. It's a lot of combined points that never really got to earn their keep that game. But, even with that it was still a close game.


Reflection

Overall, I though the list played well and I was happy with its results. I used corner deployment to force my opponents to consolidate their armies, and generally tried to roll up one flank. The combined assaults from Pack Mentality really help give the list punch on engagements to overpower the enemy and made it useful for doing a large turn 1 assault against a BTS.

Have two more formations ready to enter in Thunderhawks really helps apply engagements where pressure is needed. While there is the risk of flying in and weathering AA and ending up w a blast marker in a best case, I've found it much better than trying to march across the board and try to engage while already having multiple blast markers and casualties. The Wolves feel this especially having no return fire. Getting them to engage as fast as possible is paramount.

I know the meta doesn't look favorably on dreads, but the Wolves desperately need shooting. Adding one dread gives a bit of cover, a little shooting, and an extra macro in CC I found very helpful. Added bonus, a shot from a dread won me BTS in game 2! The Venerable Dreadnought is fantastic with fearless in my BTS and delayed or saved my BTS in two of the three games.

If anyone has specific questions, I'm happy to try and remember and answer what I can! Thanks to all my opponents for great games and to Dave for a great event.

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 Post subject: Re: Space Wolves 3.0 Approved
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 5:05 pm 
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Here's my list: http://traitor-legion.appspot.com/choos ... ~16x1~13x1

Definitely a very close game. If I had my turn 3 rallies on turn 4 it would have been a Wolves win.

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 Post subject: Re: Space Wolves 3.0 Approved
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 6:06 pm 
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Thanks Dave.

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 Post subject: Re: Space Wolves 3.0 Approved
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 7:40 pm 
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UvenLord is on vacation right now so it might be a few days before he answers.

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 Post subject: Re: Space Wolves 3.0 Approved
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 8:17 pm 
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Thanks for the heads up mordoten. There's no rush, just figured I'd throw my 2 cents in for whatever its worth.

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 Post subject: Re: Space Wolves 3.0 Approved
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2016 7:01 pm 
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Thanks for the feedback gunslinger! :)

That looks like a very aggressive list with only 3 or so units on the ground from the start. Nice to see that it turned out alright and that you had some use of the pack mentality.

How do you usually plan your drop? Close to the blitz and 15cm in or? I do not drop "big" that often just because its such a big game decider. You kind of win or loose depending on how the drop and following engagement goes.

Dreads aren't bad but perhaps they are not super good either. I take them from time to time, both in Thunderhawks and drop pods.

Never played against the Eldar Titan list, last time I looked it just didn't look suitable to tournament play perhaps its better now :)

/Uven


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 Post subject: Re: Space Wolves 3.0 Approved
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 11:48 pm 
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Sorry for the delay, I'm currently traveling in Norway and don't ways have a chance to use wireless.

The drop shifts. Sometimes I try to roll up a flank and end at the blitz, and other times I've had success with dropping in the center of the army and splitting them in two. It just depends on the opponent. I overcommitted to the center against a Speed Freaks list and got rolled. I dropped center against Vanilla Marines and nearly tabled them. It's situational. Ideally I try to keep the two dropped formations, and two thunderhawk delivered formations close together for continued Turn 2 combined assaults.

It's definitely a "win big, lose big" list, but if you're willing to take the chances when the come it delivers nicely.

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 Post subject: Re: Space Wolves 3.0 Approved
PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2016 10:08 pm 
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Finally manage to get a test geme for the "playtest version"

Battle rep here: http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=31589


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 Post subject: Re: Space Wolves 3.0 Approved
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:06 am 
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Hi all
Quick question: I want to add to the SW list all the models that have been created recently from GW.
I am talking about Wulfen, StormWolf and Stormfang.
Could it be of some interest for you?

F.


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 Post subject: Re: Space Wolves 3.0 Approved
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 1:37 pm 
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Those would probably be good for a variant list instead of bloating this one which works well. Not like we.Don't already have a wolves armor list already so why not a 13th Great Company? Of course all that's up to Uvenlord. In friendly games you can already add and tweak whatever you want so are you just asking for unit stats to get you started? We probably could hash those out here quickly.

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 Post subject: Re: Space Wolves 3.0 Approved
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 4:09 pm 
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A 13th Co list full of Wulfen would be pretty sweet!


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