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Should we add Sanguinary Guard to the Blood Angels list?
Yes 49%  49%  [ 18 ]
No 51%  51%  [ 19 ]
Total votes : 37

Sanguinary Guard or not?

 Post subject: Sanguinary Guard or not?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 1:59 am 
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I hope the poll question isn't too simple. I figure people either want them in or they don't :)

If you haven't already taken note of the discussion here:
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=73&t=26651

Please feel free to update yourself on this topic.

There are a couple of incarnations we could use but for now I would like to know if the majority support the inclusion of Sanguinary Guard.

Cheers all.


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 Post subject: Re: Sanguinary Guard or not?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 6:33 pm 
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Looks like the vote is awfully close. When will polling close?

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 Post subject: Re: Sanguinary Guard or not?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 11:41 pm 
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What if we are in favour of an upgrade, but not a separate formation?

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 Post subject: Re: Sanguinary Guard or not?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 12:00 am 
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At this stage I'm just trying to ascertain whether to put them in or not. As I mentioned, we have a couple of incarnations but my priority is to see if there's enough support to include them. We can work out how later.


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 Post subject: Re: Sanguinary Guard or not?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 1:11 am 
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To translate, if you are in favor of an upgrade, your vote would be "yes" :)

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 Post subject: Re: Sanguinary Guard or not?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 9:59 am 
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I watching this with interest. I had painted my SM as Blood Angels and have mainly chosen units that are in both Codex Astartes and BA lists. I would certainly like to see SanguinaryGuard represented, but I would be happy enough if they were an optional upgrade to a Supreme Commander as a retinue.

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 Post subject: Re: Sanguinary Guard or not?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 10:17 pm 
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I wonder if we can rustle up a few more votes just to push this thing in one direction or another?

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 Post subject: Re: Sanguinary Guard or not?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:38 pm 
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"I don't think there is enough reason to add to a list another powered up chaos space marine unit to the list. Why would you use normal chaos space marine units if you have sufficient access to better ones." could be valid to any Chaos Space Marine list.

Resons: Fluff, feel of the army, justification through numbers present in a given force.

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 Post subject: Re: Sanguinary Guard or not?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:51 am 
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Hena wrote:
Why would you use normal assault units if you have sufficient access to better ones.

There are distinct downsides:

Cost - a formation of 4 Sanguinary Guard with SC will cost a hefty 475 points.

The Sanguinary Guard are a 0-1 unit choice in the list that requires the Supreme Commander upgrade, in a formation that is likely to be going risky places where he's more likely than normal to be killed.

Other assault units would still be used and each has their place. Terminators are cheaper and a lot tougher while you could get a load of Assault Marines for that cost.


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 Post subject: Re: Sanguinary Guard or not?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 2:01 am 
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Take my opinion with a grain of salt, but to me Sanguiniary Guard are below the scope of epic. Terminators, yes (special armour and teleporting), Death Company yes (iconic unit), Vanguard/Sternguard/Sanguiniary Guard no.


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 Post subject: Re: Sanguinary Guard or not?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 2:12 am 
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Hena wrote:
I don't think there is enough reason to add to a list another powered up assault marine unit to the list. Why would you use normal assault units if you have sufficient access to better ones.

That's why we trial things Hena. I didn't do it on a whim. I considered the issue quite thoroughly. In the end, if they're not right, they're out.

Stagnation kills this game. Take the Land Raider for example. It was left stagnant at 350-400 points for ages and no one took an iconic unit of the army. Make some small adjustments and hey presto! people started using it in loads of lists - you should see the lists for Cancon this year. Four in 6 Marine lists are taking 8 formations of LRs! Even in small increments change can generate lots of interest from people and get people enthused to play.


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 Post subject: Re: Sanguinary Guard or not?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 2:13 am 
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Ulrik wrote:
Take my opinion with a grain of salt, but to me Sanguiniary Guard are below the scope of epic. Terminators, yes (special armour and teleporting), Death Company yes (iconic unit), Vanguard/Sternguard/Sanguiniary Guard no.

And that's a fair assessment. But it's your own personal view. Others disagree - and 50% of the pollsters did.

What I'd actually like to see is people play these changes then complain or not. Not the other way around. BTW, not saying you specifically are complaining here, Ulrik.


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 Post subject: Re: Sanguinary Guard or not?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 2:23 am 
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Dobbsy wrote:
What I'd actually like to see is people play these changes then complain or not. Not the other way around. BTW, not saying you specifically are complaining here, Ulrik.


I actually disagree here - deciding to add Sanguiniary guard is not a matter of testing. You won't break the game by adding them, but you might break some of the design principles. The effects of that are a lot harder to measure than list balance.


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