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Dark Angels (Inactive)

 Post subject: Re: NetEA Dark Angels (v1.95)
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:58 pm 
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List updated to v1.95, the main change being one extra support or specialist choice for each Core/Strike detachment. The list was a bit too frustrating before, feels a lot easier to construct varied lists now.

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Dark Angels (v1.9)
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:28 pm 
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Mrdiealot wrote:
Happy to see there's some interest for the list!.


I'm certainly interested in the list, but can't add any playtests, since I don't really have other local players. Some day maybe!


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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Dark Angels (v1.95)
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:45 pm 
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Good to hear! And if you're interested in playing online, there's Tabletop Simulator or Vassal to choose from. We have a TTS discord here: https://discord.gg/DQRHRhv

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Dark Angels (v1.95)
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 9:48 pm 
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I only have a chromebook, and as far as I know neither of those can be hosted in a browser :/ I'll have a look through the list and give my thoughts when I get a chance though


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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Dark Angels (v1.95)
PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 11:41 am 
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Had a game against Orks yesterday where I tried the Land Speeder Venegance on 30cm move. The list was a bit of a mix of stuff I wanted to try, and with no clear plan, bad dice and an overly aggressive strategy I lost pretty badly.

Some lessons are that Coordinated Teleport can work well, but you really need to have the activations to get the optimal opportunity to use it. The LS Venegance will stay at 35cm move, since they really need the extra 5cm in order to be able to shoot. The Nephilim worked OK, and can be a really nasty interceptor. Using Predator Destructors with Stalkers also worked pretty well, but they still need to get within 30cm to get full effect on their weapons, and then they're of course exposed to counterattack. That formation seems fairly priced. Tried the LR Ares as well, with 3 Vindicators as upgrade, and they didn't get to do much but the potential is certainly there.

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Dark Angels (v1.95)
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 10:07 pm 
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Richard and I got one and a half games in today, I'm hoping to get a batrep up tomorrow. Initial thoughts after the games (more detail to come):

Land Speeder Vengeance - this upgrade is a no-brainer. A 50% increase in AP firepower and 200% increase in AT firepower and increased FF for 50pt per formation is the best 50pt you can spend anywhere in the list. Then add in that due to Scout they can start the game garrisoned in Overwatch...
One suggestion Richard had was to at least reduce the Assault Cannon to a Heavy Bolter so that they're not so good at everything.

Dark Talon - where the bleep did the MW3+ come from? ;) we both thought that these should drop back to the older MW4+. Admittedly, as a Death Guard player, I'm particularly paranoid about MW shots, but MW3+ on aircraft, in a list that's relatively good at taking out AA feels like too much. This could always be countered by bumping up the AP part of the Hurricane Bolter to AP4+, as I can't think of any other unit that has it as a ranged weapon, just the LR Crusader where they give FF EA.

Cyclone Terminators, on the other hand, feel like they need a bit of a boost if they're going to cost more than standard Terminators and without any access to characters. Due to game circumstances they did very little, but FF4+ just 'felt' wrong when they're more heavily armed than a Devastator stand!

Coordinated Teleport was used in the main game, and felt very thematic. Great stuff.

The Relic Deimos formation was used in the second 'half' game, and added a very nice bit of ranged punch to the list.

Thanks for the work on the list!

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Dark Angels (v1.95)
PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2018 1:03 am 
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IJW Wartrader wrote:
Richard and I got one and a half games in today, I'm hoping to get a batrep up tomorrow. Initial thoughts after the games (more detail to come):


Thanks for checking out the list!

Quote:
Land Speeder Vengeance - this upgrade is a no-brainer. A 50% increase in AP firepower and 200% increase in AT firepower and increased FF for 50pt per formation is the best 50pt you can spend anywhere in the list. Then add in that due to Scout they can start the game garrisoned in Overwatch...
One suggestion Richard had was to at least reduce the Assault Cannon to a Heavy Bolter so that they're not so good at everything.


I've been very conflicted about the LS Venegance. On the one hand, I think they're actually worse than the LS Typhoon since those have a very distinctive role in comparison, and better range. On the other, they do feel a bit OP in if you were to spam them since they're pretty shooty in comparison to the Tornados. I'll also note that they're not more durable than the LS Tornado, but cost quite a bit more, and the list in general struggles to get activations since I've removed a lot of the cheap and obvious ones.

Need to think about this some but I'd rather decrease the move to 30cm (which feels appropriate since they're not as nimble as the smaller LS) and maybe decrease the FF than replace the Assault Cannon. Otherwise I feel they would be too similar to the Tornados.

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Dark Talon - where the bleep did the MW3+ come from? ;) we both thought that these should drop back to the older MW4+. Admittedly, as a Death Guard player, I'm particularly paranoid about MW shots, but MW3+ on aircraft, in a list that's relatively good at taking out AA feels like too much. This could always be countered by bumping up the AP part of the Hurricane Bolter to AP4+, as I can't think of any other unit that has it as a ranged weapon, just the LR Crusader where they give FF EA.


Fair enough, haven't had a chance to playtest this, so MW4+ and better AA might make it attractive enough when compared to the Nephilims.

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Cyclone Terminators, on the other hand, feel like they need a bit of a boost if they're going to cost more than standard Terminators and without any access to characters. Due to game circumstances they did very little, but FF4+ just 'felt' wrong when they're more heavily armed than a Devastator stand!


The way I've been using the Cyclone Terminators is like their formation name (Deathwing Overwatch) suggest: to teleport them down at the first turn next to some teleport homer and then Overwatch them. I agree that the decreased FF feels unintuitive, but I felt I needed to give them some sort of weakness. One idea could be to decrease their CC to 5+ while giving them 3+ FF. Need to try them some more, but I'm wary of making them too similar to the normal Deathwing Terminators. Might need a price break tho, as does the Deathwing Knights. Getting these formations is really expensive, and I usually find myself stocking up on Ravenwing Support instead to get more activations.

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Coordinated Teleport was used in the main game, and felt very thematic. Great stuff.
Good to hear!

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The Relic Deimos formation was used in the second 'half' game, and added a very nice bit of ranged punch to the list.
Have yet to try it myself, but both the Relic Deimos and the Glaives should be excellent BTS formations. I really like the 30k "Dreadwing" feel they bring to the list.

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Dark Angels (v1.95)
PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2018 11:32 am 
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Yet another idea for the LS Venegance. Would be accompanied by them costing +25pts more.

Ravenwing Land Speeder Venegance
Type: LV Speed: 25cm Armour:3+ CC:6+ FF:4+

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Dark Angels (v1.95 and v1.96b)
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 3:17 am 
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Posted a beta version of 1.96 if anyone is curious and/or wants to comment on that.

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Dark Angels (v1.95 and v1.96b)
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 1:41 pm 
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Updated the beta

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Dark Angels (v1.96)
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:54 pm 
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List updated to v1.96

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Dark Angels (v1.96 and v1.97b)
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 6:17 pm 
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Posted a beta with some experimental ideas around space ships. I'm not super convinced this is needed, but would appreciate feedback around it.

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 Post subject: Re: Dark Angels (Inactive)
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 6:01 pm 
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This will be my first post on this forum, so hello to whoever reads this. I play IJW and Blip when I do play this game and have been using this experimental list a fair bit. I've been enjoying it. The following is I hope constructive feedback on the most recent version of the list with reference to the few games that I have played with it. For reference, all games have been against IJW using his Death guard.

I like a lot about the list, co-ordinated teleport is a rule that I like using and it's been impactful without being game deciding. I've not used hunt for the fallen at all since it's a bit too likely to either not matter (because it ends up being the BTS anyway) or it's actually harder to achieve. (A cheapish formation that is fearless and can afford to hide away.)

The new change to a smaller spaceship I've not tried any games with yet but I can't see myself using it. It's such a tight constraint for how much can fit in and the barrage is so paltry that I'm always going to upgrade to the cruiser. (Which has been good.) I don't mind the idea but feel it's just too harsh. Simplifying to let it carry 10 infantry or dreadnoughts and enough drop pods to carry them would I think be enough. I would also drop the barrage and give it a pinpoint attack instead. When I was looking at other spacecraft for comparison I noticed that chaos ships seemed to have both pinpoint attack and barrage so perhaps giving this craft a pinpoint attack might present a more interesting choice. (Standard profile for the attack single 2+ TK(D3) and probably the ship would have to cost 150pts.)

After one of the updates introduced black knights as part of the ravenwing attack formation I was wondering if Deathwing knights could be added to Deathwing terminators in the same manner? As it stands I have not been able to convince myself to include them in any lists because they feel a bit too limited with only CC capacity and little to no mobility after the teleport. Would changing them to an addition stand purchased as an upgrade to Deathwing formations feel right to people? (I'd also like to see them have the inspiring rule if this was taken up as it is a relatively good fit for the fluff behind them.)

The land speeder vengeance have been a staple of my lists with this army and whilst I don't think they are too powerful they do outshine the tornados by comparison. I'm unsure what would be a entirely suitable change but am wondering if they ought to lose 'scout' as a way to limit they board presence. (In my games they have been a very effective crowd and board control element, garrisoning in overwatch and doing sterling work generally.)

In a similar vein I've always taken dark talons (nephilims too but IJW hasn't been bringing aircraft so they've not shone) which have proven extremely potent. Part of this has been the meagre to non-existent AA and aircraft in the forces I've faced but even then I've had a relatively easy time shutting what was there down so the talons could hunt with impunity. Much as it's been a benefit to me I don't think the stasis bombs need IC and D. It has been a joy to have some easy source of ranged macro that can be applied anywhere.

I have played with the Predator Deimos and Glaive formations and both have been plenty potent. The predators was solid and seemed perfectly balanced considering how their resilience isn't any different from other predator companies (besides the extra stands). The long range firepower and sources of armour cracking were very welcome. The glaives were a bit more questionable. The main question is why are they DC 4? It may sound a bit odd as a primary objection but in conjunction with ATSKNF they are almost impossible to suppress or break. Their firepower is more than respectable but I'm not sure if that counts for or against in discussion about their balance. The volkite cannonade is a very potent weapon for breaking enemy formations and it was very effective against the Death guard. With the mass of quad lascannons they were also pretty amazing against AV formations and WE generally. They don't hit too hard in my view but they are really difficult to deal with.

Really liked the siege breakers formation of land raider Ares with vindicators. It offered a wonderful amount of firepower with a respectable number of stands and resilience thanks to the land raiders. On a related note, the land raider formations in general are really nice as a way of building a list.


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