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THE KITCHEN SINK

 Post subject: Re: THE KITCHEN SINK
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 1:46 am 
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jimmyzimms wrote:
Random question, is such a thing interesting for other factions? Like a Guard one for instance? Just wondering...


I think the appeal is going to highest for new players who don’t feel comfortable moving beyond the existing lists – especially those who’ve started buying things here and there and don’t have the right numbers for the usual formations. If that’s who you’re targeting, then a kitchen sink list would throw out “X support formations per company” limits and give broader ranges like 2-6 Predators @65 pts each (it doesn’t have to add up to the exact values in the main lists). And because of the support formation limits, it’d be even more valuable for non-Astartes armies.

We’d probably want to encourage players using these lists to play missions from the various supplements people here have written. Get creative when taking a non-standard army instead of playing the same ol’ Tournament Scenario with potentially unbalanced lists.


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 Post subject: Re: THE KITCHEN SINK
PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2017 3:29 pm 
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This is something I could get behind, a bit of flexibility in detachment sizes.
Have infantry detachments start at 4 models, with upgrade options to go to 6. Vehicle detachments could start at 3 and go to 5 etc.

carlisimo109 wrote:
jimmyzimms wrote:
Random question, is such a thing interesting for other factions? Like a Guard one for instance? Just wondering...


I think the appeal is going to highest for new players who don’t feel comfortable moving beyond the existing lists – especially those who’ve started buying things here and there and don’t have the right numbers for the usual formations. If that’s who you’re targeting, then a kitchen sink list would throw out “X support formations per company” limits and give broader ranges like 2-6 Predators @65 pts each (it doesn’t have to add up to the exact values in the main lists). And because of the support formation limits, it’d be even more valuable for non-Astartes armies.

We’d probably want to encourage players using these lists to play missions from the various supplements people here have written. Get creative when taking a non-standard army instead of playing the same ol’ Tournament Scenario with potentially unbalanced lists.


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 Post subject: Re: THE KITCHEN SINK
PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2017 3:50 pm 
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You already can do that (in all lists regardless-JJ even wrote that in bold in the rulebook). This document is guideline for a shake and bake force with a modicum of logic and not a strict FOC. I'm not interested in making inumerable structural changes for infinite flexibility for every possible combination as it's a time suck and would end up with a document 20 pages long and frankly not needed (at some point you have to 'own' your list and do a wee bit of thinking when building your own force).


You want 4 stand tactical formations? Kick ass. Divide the cost by 6 then multiply by 4, k? :) Want 6 stand devestators? Divide by 4 and multiply by 6 to get that cost instead. Want Predators and Land Raider in a 6 strong formation? Knock yourself out.

As long as your opponent is happy you should be happy. (e.g. Don't be a dick and everything is kosher :) )

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 Post subject: Re: THE KITCHEN SINK
PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2017 3:51 pm 
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Added a new version in the OP explaining how to do a shake and bake custom formations. In addition added the assault ram stats and an table explaining which list has the stats for the indicated unit type.

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 Post subject: Re: THE KITCHEN SINK
PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 10:44 pm 
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jimmyzimms wrote:
You already can do that (in all lists regardless-JJ even wrote that in bold in the rulebook). This document is guideline for a shake and bake force with a modicum of logic and not a strict FOC. I'm not interested in making inumerable structural changes for infinite flexibility for every possible combination as it's a time suck and would end up with a document 20 pages long and frankly not needed (at some point you have to 'own' your list and do a wee bit of thinking when building your own force).

You want 4 stand tactical formations? Kick ass. Divide the cost by 6 then multiply by 4, k? :) Want 6 stand devestators? Divide by 4 and multiply by 6 to get that cost instead. Want Predators and Land Raider in a 6 strong formation? Knock yourself out.

When pricing formations, I'd recommend costing the naked activation separately, at (say) 50 points. So, 6 devastators should cost (250-50)/4*6+50 = 350. A formation is never valuable in direct proportion to its size (unless you're an Ork and has formation-size-dependent special rules).

jimmyzimms wrote:
As long as your opponent is happy you should be happy. (e.g. Don't be a dick and everything is kosher :) )


Always sound advice!


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 Post subject: Re: THE KITCHEN SINK
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 3:02 am 
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jimmyzimms wrote:
I'm not interested in making inumerable structural changes for infinite flexibility for every possible combination as it's a time suck and would end up with a document 20 pages long and frankly not needed (at some point you have to 'own' your list and do a wee bit of thinking when building your own force).


Are you saying you're going to make me take units in whole number increments? This is an outrage! ;D

But I must admit, I totally missed JJ's quote, and after years of looking at lists I forgot that it was possible to play EA without following them.


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 Post subject: Re: THE KITCHEN SINK
PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:16 am 
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SpeakerToMachines wrote:
jimmyzimms wrote:
You already can do that (in all lists regardless-JJ even wrote that in bold in the rulebook). This document is guideline for a shake and bake force with a modicum of logic and not a strict FOC. I'm not interested in making inumerable structural changes for infinite flexibility for every possible combination as it's a time suck and would end up with a document 20 pages long and frankly not needed (at some point you have to 'own' your list and do a wee bit of thinking when building your own force).

You want 4 stand tactical formations? Kick ass. Divide the cost by 6 then multiply by 4, k? :) Want 6 stand devestators? Divide by 4 and multiply by 6 to get that cost instead. Want Predators and Land Raider in a 6 strong formation? Knock yourself out.

When pricing formations, I'd recommend costing the naked activation separately, at (say) 50 points. So, 6 devastators should cost (250-50)/4*6+50 = 350. A formation is never valuable in direct proportion to its size (unless you're an Ork and has formation-size-dependent special rules).

jimmyzimms wrote:
As long as your opponent is happy you should be happy. (e.g. Don't be a dick and everything is kosher :) )


Always sound advice!

Hmm. This is becoming awfully similar to a game I once played... Wonderful encouragement for those of us less inclined to bother with the tournament thing.

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 Post subject: Re: THE KITCHEN SINK
PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 1:21 pm 
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;D
I know! It's almost like we supposed to be having fun or something!

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 Post subject: Re: THE KITCHEN SINK
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 11:36 am 
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I don't mind having a play around with writing an all encompassing list if someone can send me some editable word files to play around with.

Matt


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 Post subject: Re: THE KITCHEN SINK
PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 8:38 pm 
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Anyone try this beast out on a lark?
:spin :sos :whistle

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 Post subject: Re: THE KITCHEN SINK
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:33 pm 
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If i had Marines at hand i would, as I am always up for peculiar lists, ... but not at the moment.

Also, as it looks that your intention is to have all the units from the E:A SM lists, how about adding the Thunderhawk Close Air Support from Scions of Iron? There is also an small typo: it is typed as Thunderhawk Bomber from Scions of Iron in some places but it is Thunderhawk Saturation Bomber, like you wrote on others.

Thanks for the work.The part about telling from which list is which uncommon unit is very useful.

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Last edited by Abetillo on Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: THE KITCHEN SINK
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:17 pm 
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The formation is just called TBrick Bomber here. The unit is TBrick Saturation Bomber (second column) which is the uniform part of EA lists.

Good catch on the TBrick CAS. Adding.

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