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NetEA Sautekh Legion (Newcrons) 1.1 [Developmental]

 Post subject: Re: NetEA Sautekh Legion (Newcrons) 1.0 [Developmental]
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 4:08 pm 
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Tiny-Tim wrote:
Interesting - first list is 50pts over, Doom Scythes are 225pts for 2


Sorry yeah its a mistake on the army forge file. I'll get around to updating that at some point.

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Sautekh Legion (Newcrons) 1.0 [Developmental]
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 10:28 pm 
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well the last list was kinda good, though the Abattoire performs quite situational. Personally I have tried a few lists without large war engines and I have to say they tend to be more reliable. Two monoliths are ok, depending on how and where to port them. For obvious reasons, they have to be handled a lot more carefully bit I found them usefull for mobility and activation purposes. If the Abbattoire is closing in right behind them and they get ported in cover somewhat half of the table, it's usually enough for your opponent to ignore the Monoliths completely. In total, my biggest concerns with Necrons in general are still the wonky and slightly unclear portal mechanics.

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Sautekh Legion (Newcrons) 1.0 [Developmental]
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 10:49 pm 
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What particularly do you find "Wonky and unclear"?
(Not intended to sound aggressive, genuinely interested for the purposes of improvement)

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Sautekh Legion (Newcrons) 1.0 [Developmental]
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 8:28 am 
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Thanks for your thoughts.

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Sautekh Legion (Newcrons) 1.0 [Developmental]
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 12:00 am 
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No worries, I never take that serious ;-)

The situations were as follows:

1. portal engagement
We found it unclear, wether or not a) it is possible to engage a formation out of a portal straight away.

b) if the engagement would trigger overwatch, as not being shooting, nor a movement per definition (as engagement are a different action per definition, although raw, they do move)

c) and if a combined engagement would be possible, as the portal rules say, the unit just measures as if the portal was starting point. This would mean, as far as I read it, that the engagement could be combined, as the unit gets treated as starting at the portal.

2. Where is the portal
Movement wise etc. it was furthermore unclear (especially for the Abattoir) if the portal equipped unit counts as portal in terms of measuring, or if the actual portal as displayed on the model gets used for the purpose of measuring distances.

3. General portal mechanics
As previously mentioned I tend to find the general portal mechanics kinda unsexy, as it tends to get quite complicated when measuring each stand to portal one and then the remaining distance from portal two. Really time taking with plenty of space for (un-) willing cheating and arguing, if both players take it very serious (as some of my opponents do to the single mm). Personally I don't mind if a player measures 100% accurate, as it's still just a game and if its about that single mm you've probably played quite bad after all, but hey. At least it seems a potential grey zone that could cause interruptions in the game flow.

Thats it I think. Probably I'm just too inexperienced with Necrons, but hopefully it helps :-)

Ps.: I will put some pics of my new Obelisks up on my blog once I've had time to write the post, so there is more pics coming soon.

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Sautekh Legion (Newcrons) 1.0 [Developmental]
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 3:44 am 
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Yes you can engage out a portal. Yes engagements can trigger overwatch (it is definitely a form of movement).

They are not a combined assault, just the original assaulting formation, not the "portal" formation. Although the "portal" formation can of course provide supporting fires.

EA is far too abstract to measure from an exact portal. Just measure from the model/base and call it a day.

At least this is how I play it. Others may disagree but I feel I'm pretty close on the nose. I concede to any experts in the field however. :)


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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Sautekh Legion (Newcrons) 1.0 [Developmental]
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 3:55 am 
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Nachthall wrote:
1. portal engagement
We found it unclear, wether or not a) it is possible to engage a formation out of a portal straight away.

Yes it is. The rules say: "may enter play via a portal as part of any activation that allows movement." An engagement action has a movement component.

Nachthall wrote:
b) if the engagement would trigger overwatch, as not being shooting, nor a movement per definition (as engagement are a different action per definition, although raw, they do move)

Yes see the rules section 1.10 "A formation that is on overwatch may choose to shoot immediately after an enemy formation completes a move or unloads troops, and before the target either shoots or assaults."

Nachthall wrote:
c) and if a combined engagement would be possible, as the portal rules say, the unit just measures as if the portal was starting point. This would mean, as far as I read it, that the engagement could be combined, as the unit gets treated as starting at the portal.

This is a good question and I should FAQ it for clarity, but no you can't use your commander ability to perform a combined assault from/through a portal(s) or with the portaling formation.

Nachthall wrote:
2. Where is the portal
Movement wise etc. it was furthermore unclear (especially for the Abattoir) if the portal equipped unit counts as portal in terms of measuring, or if the actual portal as displayed on the model gets used for the purpose of measuring distances.

I can reword this to clarify, the rules says: "Measure their movement using the portal as the starting point." The models generally have a depected portal located on the front of the model. Specifically though it should read "Measure their movement using the portal (front edge/arc) as the starting point."

Nachthall wrote:
3. General portal mechanics
As previously mentioned I tend to find the general portal mechanics kinda unsexy, as it tends to get quite complicated when measuring each stand to portal one and then the remaining distance from portal two. Really time taking with plenty of space for (un-) willing cheating and arguing, if both players take it very serious (as some of my opponents do to the single mm). Personally I don't mind if a player measures 100% accurate, as it's still just a game and if its about that single mm you've probably played quite bad after all, but hey. At least it seems a potential grey zone that could cause interruptions in the game flow.

Yeah other people have mentioned similar sort of issues. Generally if there is potential for a dispute find the "critical distance" (the farthest unit that will be able to get in range for what ever maneuver you are attempting) before you move anything and come to an agreement. Yes its a bit fiddly but not much we can do about it.

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Sautekh Legion (Newcrons) 1.0 [Developmental]
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 11:02 am 
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Thanks for clarification :-)

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Sautekh Legion (Newcrons) 1.0 [Developmental]
PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2016 10:03 am 
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Would anyone like to post up their lists at the moment? I'm looking to kick off with rons soon but I'm not sure what the best angle to approach is.


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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Sautekh Legion (Newcrons) 1.0 [Developmental]
PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2016 3:34 pm 
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Last game was with the following:

Mounted Warriors with Ghost Arks
Mounted Warriors with Ghost Arks
Obelisks
Doomsday Arks
Doomsday Arks
Sentry Pylons
Tomb Blades
Destroyers + Lord
Doom Scythes (3)
Doom Scythes (3)
Doom Shrouds

Although I'll be looking for some changes to the army list.

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Sautekh Legion (Newcrons) 1.0 [Developmental]
PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2016 4:25 pm 
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So Report viewtopic.php?f=84&t=30971

Mounted Warriors with Ghost Arks
Mounted Warriors with Ghost Arks
Obelisks
Doomsday Arks
Doomsday Arks
Sentry Pylons
Tomb Blades
Destroyers + Lord
Doom Scythes (3)
Doom Scythes (3)
Doom Shrouds


So this is the second time I have taken this list, (first was against Sisters of Battle, but no report submitted) and in both cases the Doom Scythes and Doom Shrouds swung the game to the Necrons over the course of the three turn. I would go further to say that in this game the Shrouds were just overwhelming whilst the Scythes steadily cut the Stompas apart before moving onto a broken boyz mob to finish them off.

The Doomsday Arks are very good for placing blast markers or striking at small formation from long range and not over stretching the army over the first turn.

Discussing the list with Evil&Chaos and Consol Avenging Angel it was felt that the Doom Shrouds and Doomsday Arks are probably under costed, +25pts per formation?

The barrage from the Doom Shroud is very good 3BP IC Disrupt from each aircraft should be dropped to probably 2BP IC or 2BP Disrupt

Doom Scythe MW shot should probably drop to MW 4+.

I intend to run a portal list again and we will see what further reaction we get from that.

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Sautekh Legion (Newcrons) 1.0 [Developmental]
PostPosted: Mon Feb 29, 2016 7:28 pm 
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Tiny-Tim wrote:
The Doomsday Arks are very good for placing blast markers or striking at small formation from long range and not over stretching the army over the first turn.

Yeah they are. They have been nerfed considerably from their original incarnation.

Tiny-Tim wrote:
Discussing the list with Evil&Chaos and Consol Avenging Angel it was felt that the Doom Shrouds and Doomsday Arks are probably under costed, +25pts per formation?

I'd really like to keep all the support vehicles under the same Indicium maniple. That said there is still some disparity, annihilation barges are a little weak and the doomsday are a little strong to be costed the same. I was thinking of changing the doomsday to 6+FF and the Annihilation to 3+FF to more clearly define their rolls and bridge the effectiveness gap in their points. Let me know what you think? I wouldn't be opposed to dropping the range on the doomsday arcs to 60cm instead either.

Tiny-Tim wrote:
The barrage from the Doom Shroud is very good 3BP IC Disrupt from each aircraft should be dropped to probably 2BP IC or 2BP Disrupt.


The bombers at 275pts are still a little too good I do agree. Though dropping from 3BP to 2BP and dropping IC or Disrupt is huge change. I'd very much like to keep them at 3BP. We've tried them at 2BP before and as soon as they lose one unit the formation loses 2/3 its potency. What about dropping disrupt or IC and increasing the formation cost to 300pts?

Tiny-Tim wrote:
Doom Scythe MW shot should probably drop to MW 4+.


I have no problem with this change.

Tiny-Tim wrote:
I intend to run a portal list again and we will see what further reaction we get from that.


Looking forward to it. I have two games scheduled this week I should be able to generate a battlereport out of one of them as well.

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Sautekh Legion (Newcrons) 1.0 [Developmental]
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 11:53 am 
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Further test game - video here

This time I used:

Tomb Complex
Immortals + 2x Immortals, Cryptek & Overlord
Immortals + 2x Immortals, Cryptek
Sentry Pylons
Flayed Ones
4x Monoliths
3x Monoliths
5x Obelisks
Warbarque
Tesseract Vault
Night Scythes

First off thanks to Evil & Chaos for facing this army again as he has had two poundings now. The game went to 4 turns with the Sautekh winning 3-0, BTS, Blitz & TnH whilst being very close to 5-0.

The Immortal formation is very strong and I would suggest that the extra Immortals are either dropped or made more expensive as the increased size & fire power is worth more than 75pts.

Other than that I made some mistakes with my teleporting, should have protected the pylons, and E&C could have been more careful with his Thunderhawk assault. But once the rolls started to go against the Marines it was very one sided.

Vault & Warbarque were fine in this game and along with the Warhound showed how fragile DC war engines can be to engagements.

In comparison to the previously run Air list I think that this is stronger due to the units on the table.

Tim

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Sautekh Legion (Newcrons) 1.0 [Developmental]
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 2:17 pm 
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Fantastic report!
I have a few that just need to by typed up. should post them soon!

Yeah the immortals are quite powerful. I would have no issues bumping the extra unit upgrade to 100pts.

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Sautekh Legion (Newcrons) 1.0 [Developmental]
PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 3:16 am 
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Quick question regarding stats for warriors and flayed ones. I thought that traditionally stats were maintained between core and branch lists but I noticed that both warriors and flayed ones have weaker armour in this list, Warriors being slightly cheaper in points and flayed ones identical but weaker again with the loss of the lord.

So basically I'd just be thinking to use the much better other units which seems counterintuitive. Is there a reason for the break from tradition with these stats?

The rest of the changes like living metal And portals I understand are in response to people's complaints about these rules being overpowered but I can't imagine complaints about warriors and flayed ones


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