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NetEA Sautekh Legion (Newcrons) 1.1 [Developmental]

 Post subject: Re: NetEA Sautekh Legion (Newcrons) 1.0 [Developmental]
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 8:11 am 
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ive been playing the list in the short minigeddon format. i'm finding them good but also a glass cannon. i either get my Portal bomb off or it gets blasted. ive tried to be conservative but against Eldar there isn't much place to hide. kinda feel like we are trying to keep lists balanced whilst Eldar smoke us.

Necrons did well against Tau as they couldnt play the cc/ff fight. Marines its quite even

id like to expand my force more and continue giving it a nudge. hope you keep going with the list


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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Sautekh Legion (Newcrons) 1.0 [Developmental]
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 11:41 am 
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zero wrote:
ive been playing the list in the short minigeddon format. i'm finding them good but also a glass cannon. i either get my Portal bomb off or it gets blasted. ive tried to be conservative but against Eldar there isn't much place to hide. kinda feel like we are trying to keep lists balanced whilst Eldar smoke us.

Would be very interested to see the list you've been using. I agree with your glass cannon to a degree. I've found the same thing when playing the list with the same strategy as the approved list. Infantry formations staying on the board requires a lot more planning and is certainly more risky when being aggressive. Minigeddon is quite a bit less forgiving since you generally only have one set of portals and when the infantry come on is where they stay more or less. It works better in higher point games where they can jump between portals. For minigeddon I've found it often works better to adopt a different strategy than the portal bomb. Eldar are certainly one of the tougher forces the Necrons face. I'd like to limit the rock paper scissors effect as much as possible but at lower point games it gets quite difficult as its so much more limiting.

zero wrote:
Necrons did well against Tau as they couldnt play the cc/ff fight. Marines its quite even

Makes sense.

zero wrote:
I'd like to expand my force more and continue giving it a nudge. hope you keep going with the list

That would be great! This list is still very much alive. Had a bit of a lull at the end of last year but there are more than a few people just finishing up armies that are going to start getting games in so we can finish the last few tweaks and start on approval.

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Sautekh Legion (Newcrons) 1.0 [Developmental]
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 7:34 pm 
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Just want to say think carefully before dropping your newcron portal limitations, as really that was the main issue your were trying to solve with the original list was it not? I.e. the "baseless on-paper opinion" factor of the list being chock full of beardy special rules (which is a justifiable issue regardless of the actual overall balance) and the fact it isn't fun to play against a list where the game just "happens to you" which is how it feels playing against necrons that come in and straight back again regardless of who wins the assault.


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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Sautekh Legion (Newcrons) 1.0 [Developmental]
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:22 am 
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I've started playing this list recently, and have found I have a few questions- both in the list and with the rules.

For the list
Why are Deathmarks 200pts? I can see a reason not to give Necrons a cheap scout screen (or any really cheap ground units), but these guys are basically Eldar Rangers with Teleport and Necron thrown in- for double the points? I'd never take them, which is a shame.

For the rules:
The Nightscythe portal is very confusing.
What action does the Nightscythe declare in order to 'land'?
Once landed, is it still a flyer (immune to assaults and all the rest) or is it a ground vehicle of some sort- and if so, what sort?
Can the landed unit be 'broken' (important for units using the portal) or does it just ignore all of that?

My recent opponent, Norto, has recommended that it act just like a 1DC War Engine flyer. That's basically how we've been playing it, and it works just for added rules clarity.

I'll probably have more questions as I put the list through its paces and try out more options, but I'm liking it so far.


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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Sautekh Legion (Newcrons) 1.0 [Developmental]
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 2:25 pm 
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I'm glad to hear it and always happy to clarify.
Geep wrote:
For the list
Why are Deathmarks 200pts? I can see a reason not to give Necrons a cheap scout screen (or any really cheap ground units), but these guys are basically Eldar Rangers with Teleport and Necron thrown in- for double the points? I'd never take them, which is a shame.

I had the same resurvations about a 4 strong scout sniper formation that is exactly the same as a eldar ranger. I'd be willing to try them at 175 points or even 150 points. I have used them a few times though. Their value is not as a screen unit though. They are the ultimate SC assassin's. Being that they can teleport (like so many other things in the list) it is easy to get a crossfire sniper situation set up against your opponents SC. I always found it fun to set it up as a distraction from a bigger play or to give time for other formations to do valuable stuff seeing as how necrons likely won't be going first. Make your opponent have to agonize over what to do. They are quite situational though as maybe about 40% of lists can field AT commanders and then yeah they are just an expensive scout screen. I might also consider an alternative making their weapons AP+5/AT+5 S, as it would still be fluffy with them being gauss weapons.
Quote:
For the rules:
The Nightscythe portal is very confusing.
What action does the Nightscythe declare in order to 'land'?
Once landed, is it still a flyer (immune to assaults and all the rest) or is it a ground vehicle of some sort- and if so, what sort?
Can the landed unit be 'broken' (important for units using the portal) or does it just ignore all of that?

My recent opponent, Norto, has recommended that it act just like a 1DC War Engine flyer. That's basically how we've been playing it, and it works just for added rules clarity.

Yes Norto has it right (essentially a DC 1 War Engine). They function the same as a landed transport aircraft (eg thunderhawk) except they are not considered the same formation as they are separate activations. So the scythe can support if in range but won't be subject to the engagement outcome like a thunderhawk would. Originally they scythe didn't have the limitation of not being able to fire it's weapons when landing but there was significant push back as it allowed you to prep the formation being assaulted with at least one BM. Yeah this is good but on the other side you are still using two activations to pull off the maneuver and have a chance of failing the second leaving your poor fliers in the open to be blown to bits. Let me know what you think (and your opponent).

I had a more detailed explanation in a previous version but I think I trimmed it too much. I am working on an updated list that has a similar layout to Elsario's latest squat release which will have a change log and more detailed rule section to address this kind of stuff. Necrons do have some complicated special rules. Always open to suggestions for clarification and better wording.

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Sautekh Legion (Newcrons) 1.0 [Developmental]
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 2:50 pm 
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For the most part I find the list quite well-worded, it's just the portal-flyers that are confusing at the moment.

Although I get your idea with the Deathmarks, and it does sound fun to pull off, it's still never going to be 200pts to me- there are too many competing things with more of a role and usually greater survivability. I'd probably consider them for 150pts- maybe 175pts. The list almost surprisingly doesn't have many points to throw around (despite cheap-ish formations), as points are often spent in providing portals with units that then have little other role (my Monoliths are frequently broken, and 'Scythes can't do much else at all if using the portal).

I haven't tried a non-portalling army yet, but will get around to it.


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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Sautekh Legion (Newcrons) 1.0 [Developmental]
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 4:03 pm 
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I will make a note to test the Deathmarks with the following profile additions:

Letum Maniple - 4 Deathmarks units - 175pts
INF 15cm, AR 5+, CC 6+, FF 5+
Synaptic desintegrator 30cm AP5+/AT6+ S
Necron, scout, teleport.

I'll try to test them in my next game.

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Sautekh Legion (Newcrons) 1.0 [Developmental]
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 6:46 am 
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Hi there


just a couple of questions.

The spaceship. in normal necrons is 350 and this lists its 250. i dont see any difference. 2 pin points plus double pie plate without slow and steady. do you think this is costed correctly?

Also the fighters. A portal, being a fighter plus being able to land and contect objectives? do you think these are costed correctly? 4+ armour being able to cap with 4 at 4+ being able to land and contest. Just seams a little over the top.

all these are 1+ to activate too?


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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Sautekh Legion (Newcrons) 1.0 [Developmental]
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:22 pm 
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Norto wrote:
Hi there


just a couple of questions.

The spaceship. in normal necrons is 350 and this lists its 250. i dont see any difference. 2 pin points plus double pie plate without slow and steady. do you think this is costed correctly?

Also the fighters. A portal, being a fighter plus being able to land and contect objectives? do you think these are costed correctly? 4+ armour being able to cap with 4 at 4+ being able to land and contest. Just seams a little over the top.

all these are 1+ to activate too?


For the space ship I always felt the original was over costed at 350. But I haven't used it that much. 250 does seem too low though was talking with someone about it just the other day and had already decided to give it a price bump in the next iteration. Have you played against it or with it?

The fliers actually use to be even better before I took over the list. They certainly need more play testing. The alternative rule I have been looking at instead of it landing would be to just project it's portal at the ground (drop a device that opens a temporary gate as it flies by sort of deal). This would clean up the rules with regards to how it functions also. So it wouldn't get to participate in an engagement but it also wouldnt be as vulnerable as it would when landing (which is why I believe the armour was set at +4 since they could be killed so easily when on the ground). Hoping for some more 3rd party game experience to confirm.

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Sautekh Legion (Newcrons) 1.0 [Developmental]
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 3:53 pm 
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From my previous games with this list I too would like to see the fighter aircraft toned down a bit as well.

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Sautekh Legion (Newcrons) 1.0 [Developmental]
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 4:13 pm 
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Would the fliers be more reasonable at the same stats with the change in how the portal functions?

So instead of the wordy landing to open portal and nit being able to fire rules. Replace the weapons with:

Twin tesla distructors - AP4+/AT5+/AA5+
OR
Necron gate projector array - special

Notes: Special - When performing a ground attack action the Nightscythe formation may choose to use the gate projector array (instead of firing) to deploy a single portal at the front of the flight base of one unit in the formation.

So it's still functioning as either a portal OR being able to fire but can't land to have any impact on objectives.

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Sautekh Legion (Newcrons) 1.0 [Developmental]
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 5:07 pm 
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That sounds a lot better to me, and fixes many hassles.

For anyone interested, I've updated my Epic Vassal mod to have Sautek Legion Necrons available, as well as a few other minor additions. I took the images from Vassal40k, so it's missing things not common to that game- like the Night Shroud Bomber- but should otherwise be good.
I don't know how best to distribute it, but if you're interested PM me and we'll work it out.


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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Sautekh Legion (Newcrons) 1.0 [Developmental]
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 7:29 pm 
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Geep wrote:
That sounds a lot better to me, and fixes many hassles.

For anyone interested, I've updated my Epic Vassal mod to have Sautek Legion Necrons available, as well as a few other minor additions. I took the images from Vassal40k, so it's missing things not common to that game- like the Night Shroud Bomber- but should otherwise be good.
I don't know how best to distribute it, but if you're interested PM me and we'll work it out.


That's fantastic! Thanks for that.

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Sautekh Legion (Newcrons) 1.0 [Developmental]
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 7:38 pm 
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So the following rule/stat changes that are being considered for inclusion into version 1.1

1. Change to portal function on night scythes (as above).
2. Remove Disrupt from the Night Shroud bombers
3. Point increase on the harvester spaceship (tentatively ~325)
4. 25 points drop on Deathmarks and addition of AT6+ on the weapon.
5. Annihilation barge FF changed to 3+.

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Sautekh Legion (Newcrons) 1.0 [Developmental]
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:57 pm 
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1). What exactly would "deploy a single portal" mean? Presumably it only lasts for the remainder of the turn? There's not a model associated with it, so what are you deploying, a counter of some sort?

It might be cleaner to go with something like
"When performing a ground attack action the Night Scythe formation may choose to use the gate projector array instead of firing. Choose one Night Scythe in the formation; treat that unit's base as a portal until the end of the turn."

2). no comment

3). points increase seems warranted, exact amount worth testing, and 325 is probably a reasonable starting point

4). I like both these changes

5). no comment


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