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Living Metal feedback

 Post subject: Re: Living Metal feedback
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 11:13 am 
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Ulrik wrote:
On Pylons: They are tough, but as you say easily broken. The main part that makes them easy to handle is that after they're broken, they'll never be more than a single attack by a Vyper away from being broken again. If you teleport them in (to cover objectives), it's likely that half of them will have one BM.

They're also the only source of AA and ranged TK attacks available, and it's not feasible to spam them (war engines and support formations).

If I were a Marine Player with T-Hawks I'd much rather see two Pylons than a formation of Nightwings.


While that's true, I sadly can't target them with a single Vyper and then fire the rest of the fm at something else. So by just simply not dying the Pylons suck in enemy fms and force fire away from the monoliths. I've no complaints about Pylons, I think they're a good addition and characterful, I'm just highlighting how they make the army better in ways other than the obvious.

As you mention, EUK LM is better against Lance but that's ok, I've never had too much of a problem with it and I regularly take FPs. It's also better against sniper attacks too.

Steve's above comments are pretty much the same as my experiences too.


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 Post subject: Re: Living Metal feedback
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 11:52 am 
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And mine!


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 Post subject: Re: Living Metal feedback
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:04 pm 
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Another thing to test then:

If you go for killing the monoliths, even though you think it's not the optimal strategy, what happens?

Does the answer change if you have access to a nice amount of Macroweapons? (3 warhounds, Eldar Revenants, maybe lots of Ork Soopaguns etc)


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 Post subject: Re: Living Metal feedback
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 1:47 pm 
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stompzilla wrote:
While that's true, I sadly can't target them with a single Vyper and then fire the rest of the fm at something else. So by just simply not dying the Pylons suck in enemy fms and force fire away from the monoliths.


This is true, my experiences agree with Stomps (indeed are often from the other other end of the table) and Steve's and Mike's - an opponent taking pot shots at my Monolith formations is often quite welcome if they've done something foolish like move off their blitz later in the game....


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 Post subject: Re: Living Metal feedback
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 6:59 pm 
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Ulrik wrote:
kyussinchains wrote:
not quite true..... against a TK shot, a netEA monolith will only ever need to make a single save as all TK hits are reduced to TK(1), an EUK monolith however will have to save each point of damage, so is more likely to be destroyed by something doing multiple hits


I'm pretty sure multiple damage only comes into play against non-WEs? Hasn't this been covered before (characters with Invulnerable vs TK)?


I don't understand what you mean. Could you please elaborate?

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 Post subject: Re: Living Metal feedback
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 7:18 pm 
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He worded it wrong, multiple damage from TK shots is only rolled against war engines, not the other way round

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 Post subject: Re: Living Metal feedback
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 7:22 pm 
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kyussinchains wrote:
He worded it wrong, multiple damage from TK shots is only rolled against war engines, not the other way round


Oops. What kyuss said.


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 Post subject: Re: Living Metal feedback
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 7:22 pm 
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kyussinchains wrote:
He worded it wrong, multiple damage from TK shots is only rolled against war engines, not the other way round


Thanks! :)

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 Post subject: Re: Living Metal feedback
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 11:36 pm 
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Had a game today with Necrons vs Tau, (EUK) trialing what I'm hoping to be able to take to The Manchester Mangle at the end of the month (Reliant on models turning up, being painted in time and being able to borrow models).

Necron list was as follows:

TOMB COMPLEX [75]

INFANTRY PHALANX [275]
6 Necron Warriors and 1 Necron Lord, 1 x Pariah

INFANTRY PHALANX [275]
6 Necron Warriors and 1 Necron Lord, 1 x Pariah

INFANTRY PHALANX [275]
6 Necron Warriors and 1 NecronOverlord

MONOLITH MANIPLE [275]
3 x Monoliths

MONOLITH MANIPLE [200]
1 Monolith, 2 x Obelisks

MONOLITH MANIPLE [200]
1 Monolith, 2 x Obelisks

DESTROYER MANIPLE [300]
6 Destroyer

FLAYER MANIPLE [200]
6 Flayed One units

PYLON [200]
1 Pylon

PYLON [200]
1 Pylon

PYLON [200]
1 Pylon

WARBARQUE [325]
1 Warbarque, Necron Lord

Tau:

CRISIS BATTLESUIT CADRE [400]
5 XV8 Crisis Battlesuit, Shas'o

FIRE WARRIOR CADRE [325]
6 Fire Warriors, 3 Devilfish, Skyray

FIRE WARRIOR CADRE [325]
Skyray, 6 Fire Warriors, 3 Devilfish

ARMOUR SUPPORT GROUP [300]
4 Hammerheads, Skyray

ARMOUR SUPPORT GROUP [300]
4 Hammerheads, Skyray

BROADSIDE GROUP [300]
6 XV88 Broadsides

PATHFINDER GROUP [200]
4 Pathfinders, 2 Devilfish

PATHFINDER GROUP [200]
4 Pathfinders, 2 Devilfish

RECON SKIMMER GROUP [175]
3 Tetra, 3 Piranha

BARRACUDA SQUADRON [150]
2 Barracuda Fighters

ORCA DROPSHIP [150]

RECON SKIMMER GROUP [175]
3 Tetra, 3 Piranha

Very cagey game initially, as Tau have a LOT of AT firepower. Crisis suits didn't get anywhere near to my monoliths, as they didn't feel confident about surviving the Pylon gauntlet (Pylons positioned so that any flyer on the table was looking at taking 2 shots AA) and started on the ground. Necrons moved around the cover, limiting what could shoot at the Portal carrying fms and burning through Pylon, long range war barque shots, Destroyer and Flayed one activations till the Tau forward scouts had activated then bringing the monoliths and deploying the Necron Warriors. 1st turn managed to completely destroy a unit of broadsides and cripple a few other activations.

Turn 2 saw the flayed ones, previously broken in turn 1 return to the field and teleport into a nice position, using their first activation to engage the crisis suits and absolutely cream them, taking the BTS and any threat of MW doom away from the monoliths. Very engagey turn for the Necrons, having stripped the Tau of their forward scouts. Brutally effective, use of portals to deliver Warriors to where they needed to be.

Turn 3 was pretty much just mopping up and portal hopping onto objectives.

4-0 victory to the Crons.

Points of note: Despite the Tau players stated intent to try and take out the portals as early as possible: Careful maneuver of the monoliths as well as distraction units such as Flayed ones and Pylons - also providing cover fire and BM laying for engagements, meant that not a single Portal was lost to arguably one of the shootiest armies in the game. MW threat was taken care of nice and early in turn 2 (Also scoring me the BTS - Yarrrr!). Necrons definately do have the tools to deal with MWs getting to their portals without needing the special rules to make it something they don't need to worry about. I also only did the Necronkey-cokey once, although it was quite a cheeky little trick, it most certainly isn't the be-all and end all of necron tactics. It was useful to have portals free to move troops around the table who were already on the table and be able to adjust to the changing situation, as well as taking some of the importance/pressure off the monoliths (2 portals needed everytime you hokey-cokey engage puts quite a lot of pressure on them and makes them much more neccessary than they would/should otherwise be). It's also useful to have portals available for broken troops to flee into, rather than waiting for the end of the turn to phase out hoping not to get picked off in the meantime. They can then come back on a marshall, keeping the activation count high and boosting the numbers back up - particulary important in turn 3 for capturing and contesting objectives. Additionally, not Necronkey-kokeying also gives the Crons a greater threat radius on an engagement. Every turn I had portals to spare, that hadn't been used.

Destroyers were good but not overwhelmingly so. Needing to double and always shooting at units in cover meant they rarely caused many casualties, needing 6s to hit. They engaged once against a very depleted HH fm and crushed it but were in turn broken by firepower and fled off the blitz in turn 3. They can hit hard, in the right situation but are less survivable than a space marine tac squad (And can't really use cover). Worth 300pts IMO but any more and I'd likely take Obelisks instead as these are faster, have longer range and better armour.

Planning to have another game with E-UK Necrons on Tues. If I remember I'll try and take some pictures and do a slightly more detailed bet-rep.


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 Post subject: Re: Living Metal feedback
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:16 am 
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Thanks for the report!

Looking forward to seeing how they do in the tournament.


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 Post subject: Re: Living Metal feedback
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:51 pm 
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@ stompzilla (or any of the EPICUK team): does the necron monolith upgrade mean that you have to replace the obelisks with monoliths if you take the upgrade? or is this a typo and should say 'you can upgrade 2 obelisks to 2 monoliths for 75 pts each'??

Also the new LM rule is an invunerable save so against normal weapons a monolith would get a 4+ armour save, 4+ reroll for reinforced armour and then a 4+ invuneable for LM?

This is how i read it...

ToS


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 Post subject: Re: Living Metal feedback
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 2:14 pm 
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Taker of Skulls wrote:
@ stompzilla (or any of the EPICUK team): does the necron monolith upgrade mean that you have to replace the obelisks with monoliths if you take the upgrade? or is this a typo and should say 'you can upgrade 2 obelisks to 2 monoliths for 75 pts each'??

Also the new LM rule is an invunerable save so against normal weapons a monolith would get a 4+ armour save, 4+ reroll for reinforced armour and then a 4+ invuneable for LM?

This is how i read it...

ToS


Monoliths dont have the Reinforced Armour rule so don't get a re-roll.

Monolith Maniple is 200pts for 1 Monolith and 2 Obelisks or you can take the upgrade and have a formation of 3 Monoliths for 275pts.


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 Post subject: Re: Living Metal feedback
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 2:15 pm 
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no, monoliths don't have reinforced armour, they have living metal, an EUK monolith gets 2 saves, as does a NetEA monolith, the EUK gets a 4+ armour save and a 4+ invulnerable save (so against MW/TK it just gets a single save for the invulnerable)

the NetEA monollith gets a 4+ re-rollable save against all hits except TK, against TK it gets a single 4+ save and the hit is automatically reduced to TK(1)

in short, 2 4+ saves, not three

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 Post subject: Re: Living Metal feedback
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 2:28 pm 
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Yeah, the only difference between NetEA and EUK Monoliths is vs Macro Weapons. Formations, Titan Killers, normal hits, all others are the same.

The other (IMHO) critical change EUK made is that Pylons can take several points of damage from a single TK attack (although they do get a save against each point) where the NetEA Pylon only takes a single hit.


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 Post subject: Re: Living Metal feedback
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 2:44 pm 
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The biggest change I'd say is the extra vulnerability to MW's, which makes Pylons notably more vulnerable to teleport units with MW attacks.

Marines always used to be the scissors to the necrons' paper in my group, and I'm interested to see how this change affects that issue once EUK players have learned how to play with/against Necron armies.

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