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Artillery (Again)

 Post subject: Artillery (Again)
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:17 pm 
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Can I do this?

I think yes, because I'm a terrible human being.




Quote:
To fire a barrage, first take a Barrage template (see 1.0.1) and place it on the table where you want the barrage to land. Each weapon contributing to the barrage must be within range and have a line of fire to at least one unit under the template. Weapons that are not in range or do not have a line of fire to an enemy unit that falls under the template may not fire at all this turn. You are allowed to place templates over your own units, or units from several enemy formations if you wish but all units under the templates – friend and foe alike – are attacked. Any formation that is attacked receives a Blast marker for ‘coming under fire’ (see 1.9.4). Next, refer to the data sheet to work out the total number of Barrage points. The whole formation fires at once, so the number of Barrage points for each weapon that is in range and has a line of fire is added together. When you have worked out the total number of barrage points refer to the barrage table below. Note that a formation may only fire one barrage per turn – a single formation may not fire separate barrages at different targets.


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 Post subject: Re: Artillery (Again)
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:33 pm 
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Yep, you can even hit units not completely within 30cm. And if you have a second template, put it even closer to you. The horror.

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 Post subject: Re: Artillery (Again)
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:30 am 
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To be clear, the point of interest is that no part of my template is within 30cm.

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 Post subject: Re: Artillery (Again)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:41 am 
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Oh, and I found this in the FAQ:

"The first template that is placed must
be placed so as to cover as many units
from the target formation as possible, but
may only be placed in positions where all
units contributing BPs to the attack have a
LOF and are in range to at least one unit
under the template. "


Anyone have any thoughts?

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 Post subject: Re: Artillery (Again)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:55 pm 
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The issue that I have with this is that none of the template is within range. I am happy with the template being set at the extreme edge of the template, but I disagree to the concept that a model, say Cyclops, could be just in range at the front but the template placed over the rear of the unit to maximise hits.

The 30cm example is a bit confusing with minimum range. I say that part of the template has to be within range of the shooting & not extended over the length of the target's base.

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 Post subject: Re: Artillery (Again)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:03 pm 
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There's also a thread here, where a variety of views are being expressed: https://www.facebook.com/groups/3003837 ... 859149801/

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 Post subject: Re: Artillery (Again)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:05 pm 
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Quote:
The 30cm example is a bit confusing with minimum range.


Yes, to be clear, the Griffon in the image is not firing Indirect, so it does not have the 30cm minimum range restriction.

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 Post subject: Re: Artillery (Again)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:08 pm 
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It works the same way as maximum range, as long as all weapons contributing to the barrage have a LoF (for direct barrages only) and range to at least one unit under the template you can place the template there.

If that one unit happens to straddle the line of minimum range (for indirect barrages) or maximum range it's still within range.

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 Post subject: Re: Artillery (Again)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:11 pm 
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Dave, to be extra clear, the situation is:

The Griffon's Heavy Mortar has a range of 30cm.

There is at least one enemy unit within 30cm.

No part of the template has been placed within 30cm of the Heavy Mortar (it has been placed so as to maximize hits, whilst still affecting at least one unit within 30cm of the Heavy Mortar).

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 Post subject: Re: Artillery (Again)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:46 pm 
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Oh and there's this from Neal Hunt's FAQ:

"Q: Barrage templates – is it possible to place the first template over units to whom no LoF exists as long as there is a LoF to at least one unit under the template? Can I hit units I can’t see?
A: Yes. As noted, only a single unit under the template has to be in LoS and range. That means you can have units out of LoS and beyond the nominal range of the BP weapon under the template."


Which like, almost addresses the question. But then, doesn't.

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 Post subject: Re: Artillery (Again)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:53 pm 
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Ah, OK. I finally understand the question.

The 2 stands on the left are in range, and the template is being placed as per the rules. You're allowed to stretch beyond your direct fire range as pictured. I wouldn't have a problem with it anyway, it's kind of like range stretching with how hits are allocated. E.g, Tacs and a Hunter shoot AT, hits from the Tacs can be put on AVs they're more than 45cm away from because the Hunter makes those AVs eligible targets.

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 Post subject: Re: Artillery (Again)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:28 pm 
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That's in accordance with my reading: The rules allow you to "range stretch" a barrage attack by the width of the base of the units in range, in this circumstance. Indeed, because you have to place the template to hit the maximum number of units, you're obliged to do so.

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 Post subject: Re: Artillery (Again)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:02 pm 
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Hence asking why the relevant FAQ has been removed, because there's a substantial number of players that read the barrage rules as needing part of the template (or even the centre of the template) to be in range and LoF.

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 Post subject: Re: Artillery (Again)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:30 pm 
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Yeah, if nothing else the variety of interpretations in the Facebook thread show a FAQ is necessary.

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 Post subject: Re: Artillery (Again)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:20 pm 
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OK, how about:

Quote:
Can a Barrage template be placed over units that can't be seen? Or over units that are out of range?

Yes, each weapon contributing to the barrage need only have a line of fire and range to a single unit under the first Barrage template. Extra Barrage templates do not require either condition, and an indirect fire barrage does not require a line of fire.

Can a Barrage template be placed completely out of range?

Extra templates certainly can, and the first Barrage template can in certain circumstances (a unit that is partially in and partially out of range for instance). The Barrage template can be placed over any part of a unit (even if that part is out of range) so long as part of that unit is in range. A line of fire is still required to this unit, unless it is an indirect fire barrage.

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