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Epic Russian Front

 Post subject: Re: Epic Russian Front
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:56 pm 
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Russ- i can't open the files. Will have to have a look through them the next time we meet up for game.

Cheers

James

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 Post subject: Re: Epic Russian Front
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:58 pm 
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Here ya go.


Attachments:
Panzer Division.pdf [104.05 KiB]
Downloaded 408 times
Russian Tank Corps v1.1.pdf [93.02 KiB]
Downloaded 369 times

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 Post subject: Re: Epic Russian Front
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 5:34 pm 
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Oh, one thing regarding the notes. To hit scores over 6+ are covered in the core rules on p13 of the PDF.

EA p13 - Needing 7+ to hit wrote:
If to hit modifiers result in a required score of 7 or
more to hit then it is still possible to score a hit,
though very unlikely. As it is impossible to roll a 7 on
a D6 (go on, try if you don’t believe us), you will first
need to roll a 6, and then, for each dice rolling a 6,
you will need to roll a further score as shown on the
chart below. So, for example, to roll an 8 you must
roll a 6 followed by a 5 or 6.

Target D6 rolls needed

7: 6 followed by 4, 5 or 6
8: 6 followed by 5 or 6
9: 6 followed by 6
10: May not be hit

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 Post subject: Re: Epic Russian Front
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:27 am 
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Thank you for converting the documents into pdfs, I have no idea how to do that.
Also, thanks for the 7+ to hit thing, that is something I should have remembered!

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 Post subject: Re: Epic Russian Front
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 1:42 pm 
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Here is version 1.0 of Document 3 "Air Power on the Ostfront".

This completes Phase 1 of the project. Only playtesting will reveal whether I've been wasting my time or not ;)

There are many other divisional structures I could produce but we'll save them for Phase 2 (assuming this project ever gets that far).


Attachments:
Air Power v1.0.docx [23.7 KiB]
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 Post subject: Re: Epic Russian Front
PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 9:23 am 
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beelzemetz wrote:
just a first comment, the 7,5kwk on the pIV should have a 75cm range.

And that would be because?

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 Post subject: Re: Epic Russian Front
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 8:30 am 
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beelzemetz wrote:
In my opinion, the targeting and optical equipment of the late PzIV are not to this extent inferior to that of the Panther.
So, half the range for the PzIV is too much, i think.

It could well be the case that stats will need to be fine tuned, in fact I'd be surprised if they didn't.

My experience of rule writing is that you should go with a paradigm, express it and then test it. In the case of the PzIV in the late war the paradigm I worked to was this: The PzIV was the equal of the T34/76, however, it was outclassed by the T34/85 and totally overmatched by the Stalin II.

By 1944 the PzIV design had reached the end of its ability to be significantly modifed and was close to being obsolete. The last version, the Ausf. J, was actually a retrograde in terms of combat capabilities and was born of the necessity to speed up production in the face of mounting losses. For example, the electrical turret traverse of the Ausf. H was removed and traversing had to be done by hand and the armoured schutzen were replaced with wire mesh. It is probably fair to say that if the Germans had had the capacity to cease PzIV production and switch over to nothing but Panthers then they would have done.

Now, nothing I have just written precludes raising the firing range of the PzIV. But if we begin testing with the range set at 75cm it will outclass the T34/85 and make the tank far more useful than perhaps it actually was. Indeed, it may be the case that we will have to lower the ranges on the more powerful tanks to better balance the game.

I would also like to advance the notion that equipment differences and theoretical maximum ranges are the fixation of rule writers and accordingly their importance is somewhat over emphasised. More often than not engagement range was determined by the density of the terrain being fought over and the performance of equipment determined by the skill of the men using it.

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 Post subject: Re: Epic Russian Front
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 8:36 am 
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beelzemetz wrote:
hey, by the way, great job with this.
Iwas toying with the idea of doing something like this myself.
I played a couple of games of BKC, but found it not to my taste, the units spend too much time doing nothing...

so, if you want some help with this, i´m in.

Thank you. By provoking useful discourse you are already helping.

I found BKC utterly broken when played in 6mm. If you can field 81 platoons of Russian infantry (and I can) each with a one dice ATR you can stop the Panzerwaffe in its tracks.

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 Post subject: Re: Epic Russian Front
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 8:37 am 
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Just a note on introducing AT7+: Having to create a new rule for HMGs might be a sign that you're getting needlessly detailed. An HMG can still affect tanks even without an AT attack (blast marker for being fired at, firefight attacks). How often did an HMG really take out a T34? Weapon attack values should be limited to what they're usually doing, lucky shots and the odd lost track can be abstracted out. If you want to model the psychological effect (tank crew respected HMGs even though it usually didn't do much) the blast marker for coming under fire covers that.


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 Post subject: Re: Epic Russian Front
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 9:01 am 
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Ulrik wrote:
Just a note on introducing AT7+: Having to create a new rule for HMGs might be a sign that you're getting needlessly detailed. An HMG can still affect tanks even without an AT attack (blast marker for being fired at, firefight attacks). How often did an HMG really take out a T34? Weapon attack values should be limited to what they're usually doing, lucky shots and the odd lost track can be abstracted out. If you want to model the psychological effect (tank crew respected HMGs even though it usually didn't do much) the blast marker for coming under fire covers that.

Finding solutions to problems that don't exist is something of a curse ;)

Sometimes I can't see the wood because the trees get in the way! You're right there's no need for the HMG to have an AT value at all. Thank you Ulrik!

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 Post subject: Re: Epic Russian Front
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 11:30 am 
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I've just skimmed through the Siege Rules pdf from the Fanatic Magazine resources and a thought occurs that some of the stuff in it can be pinched for the Eastern Front. The engineering assets (which I had previously dismissed) could be used as a way to give access to and limit the use of things like trenches, minefields and bunkers etc. Obviously I'm more talking about using these assets in a pick up game rather than a scenario. In a scenario they should appear in whatever abundance is deemed necessary.

The following were all used during WWII:
Hasty Barricades
Trenches and Earthworks
Gun Emplacements
Bunkers
Razor Wire
Minefields
Tank Traps (actualy called Dragon's Teeth)

The rules could go something like:
1. For each engineer company in the division a player may field one defence item from the fortified zone list.
2. All chosen items must be deployed in the player's own half of the table before troop deployment.
3. If both players intend to use defensive items the army with the higher strategy rating may chose to deploy theirs first or second.
4. Combat engineers cannot take part in the battle and be used to create defences. You must choose which role to use them in.

It was quite common for both sides to create defensive lines from which to launch attacks at each other. Especially after an offensive became stalled, for whatever reason (usually enemy action, bad weather or lack of supplies).

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 Post subject: Re: Epic Russian Front
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:15 pm 
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Hi,

Any updates on this? it looks very interesting.

Steve


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