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Starting player armylist repository project

 Post subject: Starting player armylist repository project
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 2:27 pm 
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I wrote all of this down an hour ago but the forum maintenance and Firefox crash eated it  :_(

So there's all this talk about Epic being hard and confusing for newbies to get into, which I must partially agree with. I don't, however, think the solution is adding more restrictions to army lists in order to enforce a theme, but to instead give good examples to said newbies so that they can learn the ropes easier, and then are able to select their armies freely once they have learned a few things.

Thus I propose creating a collection of "starting" force rosters for new players, forces that would be fully playable and work as a good base for further experiments down the Epic road.

I couldn't possibly expect to complete this Herculean and fundamentally open-ended task myself so any and all input and help is fully welcome.

I propose the following guidelines for this:

* Every base army list, starting with Marines, Steel Legion, Ghazkgull's Horde and Biel-Tan, should get two introductory forces, both a "starting" force at 2000 points with no WE or aircraft, and a "full" army at 3000 points with no restrictions, using NetEA modifications and in case of TC-developed lists, it's latest version.

* As much overlap as possible between the two is encouraged (ideally you'd just add 1000 points of other stuff to basic force, but it might not always work like that).

* Those forces should be reasonably fluffy, tactically flexible and effective without being too cheesed out (no spamming!).

* For armies with models available from SG, effort should be made to minimize the costs of purchasing the army (at a minimum there should be no leftover models from blisters and the like, if at all possible). Ideally in case of Marines, IG, Orks and Eldar, you could attach a shopping list and a price tag to the army. In all cases, keeping a rough idea of availability and cost of secondhand models in mind is suggested (e.g. Land Raiders are dime a dozen but grotz are extremely difficult to get).

* Multiple forces showcasing different play styles for the same army list would be great, either using a base list or variants but having a base list army first would be a priority.



I'm going to kick this off with Marines though I admit I have little idea on how to make a reasonably competitive force with no WEs, Aircraft or terminator spam... all suggestions welcome :sulk:





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 Post subject: Starting player armylist repository project
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 5:11 pm 
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I'll start with Orks.
=========================

Big Warband
Warband with 4 Battlewagons (w/ Warboss)
Big Gunzmob + 2 Nobz +2 oddboyz (BTS goal)
Blitz Brigade (Deth Koptas)
8 Stormboyz + 4 Deth Koptas
Big KoS (Buggies and Skorchas)

1925 points (so you could add 2-3 units as desired), 6 activations

Infantry-centric and Big formations for approrpiate flavor.  Ground holding, shooty, and maneuver elements.  Warboss is mechanized for flexibility, but could be moved to the Big Warband.

2 infantry boxes, 5 blisters (wagonz, deth koptas, soopagunz, 2x buggies/skorchas)
$159 + shipping US

==

Landa
Warband + 2 Boyz/Grotz
6 fightabommas
Blitz w/ Zzap

+950 points, +3 activations

Air assault, air support/intercept and Multi-TK capability added.

+4-5 blisters (Landa, Gunwagonz, 2x bightabommas, soopagunz - Braincrusha model can serve as the Zzap gun instead)
$76 or $93 (5 blisters) + shipping US

====

You'd have to "stretch" the nobz stands by mixing in a few boyz models (or Kommandoes, since there are tons of extras) but it can be done with 2 infantry boxes.  The player would have 125 spare points to add 4-5 infantry units of their choice to bulk up whatever formation(s) they chose, including making a different formation BTS.

=====

EDIT:  Pinned the thread and I'm adding in groov3r's 1000-point starters.  Note that wtih Groover's 1000 point starter, only the Gunwagons (and the optional characters) are not in the 2000 point list above.

=== ORKS: Ghazgkhull’s Warhorde ===
Strengths: Large formations and cheap infantry.
Weaknesses: High Initiative rating means they often fail to execute orders that contradict the Ork nature.

One Ork Warband box set for ₤11.75/$20.00
One Ork Gunwagonz blister pack for ₤11.75/$20.00
One Ork Big Gunz blister pack for ₤14.70/$25.00
One Ork Character blister pack for ₤11.75/$20.00
Total spend: ₤49.95/$85.00

Here’s one possible 1,000-point combination of angry Ork:

Big-sized Warband (45 units, 850pts)
1 Warlord
8 Big Gunz
24 Boyz
8 Grotz
4 Nobz

Normal-sized Blitz Brigade (4 units, 150pts)
4 Gunwagonz

Tactica
Dese ’ere Orkz winz by destroyin’ daiz enemees ’olesale. Weez wantz ta Breakz Dair Spiritz! An’ den takez dair Blitz objectivez!




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 Post subject: Starting player armylist repository project
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:28 pm 
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For Guard:

Regimental HQ 500
Infantry Company 250
Infantry Company 250
Tank Company 650
Sentinel Squadron 100
Sentinel Squadron 100

1850

6 Activations with 150 for upgrades.

You would need 2 Infantry Companies ($40USD), Chimeras ($30), 1 Tank Company ($45) and Sentinels ($20). For a total of $135.

The Infantry companies would give you 4 upgrades of Snipers and Ogryns plus an extra Infantry company (650 extra points).

In terms of a 3k list, I'd add some Hydra ($20), Thunderbolts ($25) and some super heavies, maybe 2 Baneblades ($40) and a Shadowsword ($20). That's $105 for 950/1050 points depending on how you broke up the super heavies.

Alternatively, maybe Stormtroopers ($20), 2 Valkyries ($34) and 2 Vultures ($50) for a Navy influenced force ($104 for 950 points).

===

EDIT by Neal:  Added groov3r's 1000-point IG list.  It is a fully included subset of the 2000-point list above.

=== IMPERIAL GUARD ===
Strengths: Large armour formations, super-heavies, long-range artillery, and cheap infantry.
Weaknesses: Their troops die easily.

One Imperial Guard Infantry Company box set for ₤11.75/$20.00
One Imperial Guard Leman Russ Tank Company for ₤29.35/$45.00
Total spend: ₤41.10/$65.00

You could combine these units several ways to make a 1,000-point army, going with either an armor- or infantry-focussed force. One possible combination would be:

Infantry Company (17 units, 350pts)
1 Commander
12 Infantry
2 Ogryns
2 Snipers

Tank Company (10 units, 650pts)
9 Leman Russ tanks
1 Leman Russ Vanquisher

Tactica
This Imperial Guard army wins by destroying the enemy’s will to fight. Aim to achieve the Break Their Spirit and Blitzkrieg victory conditions.




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 Post subject: Starting player armylist repository project
PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 2:40 am 
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This is a really good idea. Especially for newbies like me who maybe have their eye on second armies, but are not as familiar with their unit types.

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 Post subject: Starting player armylist repository project
PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 4:58 pm 
Purestrain
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BTW, there's a thread exactly like this in the SG forums.  If the re-start is ever completed, mining it is a must.

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 Post subject: Starting player armylist repository project
PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 5:43 pm 
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I was operating under the assumption that Specialist Games forums are unavailable for the time being (at best)...


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 Post subject: Starting player armylist repository project
PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 5:48 pm 
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Quote: (vytzka @ 13 Jan. 2009, 16:43 )

I was operating under the assumption that Specialist Games forums are unavailable for the time being (at best)...

They are, but CyberShadow, who runs these forums, has been given permission to re-host them.

There's just some techincal issues that are delaying the transition.

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 Post subject: Starting player armylist repository project
PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 7:04 pm 
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Location: Greenville, SC
AMTL:
Reaver (3xTLD, Carapace ML, Legate)725
Reaver (2xApocL, 1x laser burner, Carapace ML, Sacred Icon)700
Warhound (PBG/VMB)275
Warhound (PBG/VMB)275
Sentinels 100
Sentinels 100
Total: 2175
Cost: ~$120 USD

Alternativly:
Reaver (3xTLD, Carapace ML, Legate)725
Reaver (2xApocL, 1x laser burner, Carapace ML, Sacred Icon)700
Warhound Pack(PBG/VMB)500
Warhound Pack(PBG/VMB)500
Total: 2425
Cost: ~$130 USD

The reaver can be ordered from GW giving you the weapons load outs with one turbolaser destructor being converted to a laser burner. Expansions can upgrade teh force with a warlord and then either more warhounds or air cover with thunderbolts.

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 Post subject: Starting player armylist repository project
PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 7:36 pm 
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Quote: (Dave @ 12 Jan. 2009, 18:28 )

For Guard:

Regimental HQ 500
Infantry Company 250
Infantry Company 250
Tank Company 650
Sentinel Squadron 100
Sentinel Squadron 100

1850

6 Activations with 150 for upgrades.

You would need 2 Infantry Companies ($40USD), Chimeras ($30), 1 Tank Company ($45) and Sentinels ($20). For a total of $135.

The Infantry companies would give you 4 upgrades of Snipers and Ogryns plus an extra Infantry company (650 extra points).

In terms of a 3k list, I'd add some Hydra ($20), Thunderbolts ($25) and some super heavies, maybe 2 Baneblades ($40) and a Shadowsword ($20). That's $105 for 950/1050 points depending on how you broke up the super heavies.

Alternatively, maybe Stormtroopers ($20), 2 Valkyries ($34) and 2 Vultures ($50) for a Navy influenced force ($104 for 950 points).

Don't forget, however, that for many of those Forgeworld models are significantly cheaper. Chimeras, hydras, and superheavies are all much cheaper if you buy from forgeworld instead of the base GW price. So I'd recommend that instead of listing the overpriced GW ones. I thought vultures and thunderbolts were too but they're a two pack instead of GW's 4 pack.

Also you can buy 12 forgeworld russes for something like $28, but they're non-standard russes so you'd need to use counts as.





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 Post subject: Starting player armylist repository project
PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 10:44 pm 
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This is an excellent idea. I'm already eyeing up the IG list. Waiting for the Eldar list now!
Can you add some suggestions for WEs? Especially the Eldar ones because they look so awesome.


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 Post subject: Starting player armylist repository project
PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:58 pm 
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Very helpful.

Can we pin this?


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 Post subject: Starting player armylist repository project
PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 6:16 pm 
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Quote: (Nicoch @ 14 Jan. 2009, 13:36 )

Don't forget, however, that for many of those Forgeworld models are significantly cheaper. Chimeras, hydras, and superheavies are all much cheaper if you buy from forgeworld instead of the base GW price. So I'd recommend that instead of listing the overpriced GW ones. I thought vultures and thunderbolts were too but they're a two pack instead of GW's 4 pack.

Also you can buy 12 forgeworld russes for something like $28, but they're non-standard russes so you'd need to use counts as.

The Superheavies are great, however you have to get three of them. I'm not a fan of there smaller vehicles however, they just looks to wimpy in scale or not.

After FW hits you with shipping I've found the prices are pretty close for those of us in the US.




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