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If you could change the RULES of E:a...

 Post subject: Re: If you could change the RULES of E:a...
PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 10:15 am 
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Mark W wrote:
Yes, given what your Super Stompas did to my marines last game I probably shouldn't be suggesting a rule that makes that even nastier! ;)


You should have seen what it did to John's marines in Glasgow. It's my new favourite crutch unit. Who cares if you play badly when macroweapon shooting a unit which is amazing in close assault!

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 Post subject: Re: If you could change the RULES of E:a...
PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:17 pm 
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Many good suggestions


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 Post subject: Re: If you could change the RULES of E:a...
PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 7:51 am 
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I'd also look at ways of controlling activation advantage. It's always going to be a thing with the way Epic A is structured but it would be nice to reduce how much it can skew list building and discourage cool upgrades.

Something like giving the army with fewer activations (at the start of the game or turn? Maybe not for titan legions, etc.) a free pass on activating or having a literal limit on how many activations you can have per turn etc. E.g your army can have 12 activations but you can only ever give 1+(3 per 1kpts) orders a turn or something. Then extra formations are insurance if some get destroyed. Obviously you can have army special rules to allow those factions that rely on activation advantage to have more because the rest of the list should already be balanced around that.

Wrath of Kings does some interesting things with activations. Their approach would not work here due to the changing size of what an activation is in that game but it's an example of how others have tried to resolve the activation advantage snowball effect.


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 Post subject: Re: If you could change the RULES of E:a...
PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 1:13 am 
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Maybe allow a free pass for every commander in the army, but only for the army with the fewest activations. Or soemthing.

But then you'd have to dole out a few more commanders to some armies.

Maybe make it so commanders can either do a combined assault OR use a pass action.


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 Post subject: Re: If you could change the RULES of E:a...
PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 12:44 pm 
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It was interesting to read all the suggestions here. Afterall we all play the same game, therefore we all encounter the same flaws that could be just simply be fixed and make an already good game, to super awesome.

Just

Like

That

viewtopic.php?f=69&t=28874

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 Post subject: Re: If you could change the RULES of E:a...
PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 1:23 pm 
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Dude, shameless self promotion! Haha!

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 Post subject: Re: If you could change the RULES of E:a...
PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 9:26 pm 
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First of all I answered the question of the thread: "If you could change the RULES of E:a..."
Of course the answer was a work, progressing for some years now, but what would be the difference if I just posted it here for first time, word by word?

Second: Most of the ideas & suggestions here are completely identical of those I worked on for quite a time now.
Just to name a few...

-activation rolling
-WE suppression
-Engage favouring FF over CC
-high activation vs low activation
-dumb cover modifiers to large WE
-binary value to RA, MW, invulnerable save
-aerospace rules
-split fire
-getting some love to commander ability
-skimmers interaction to engages
-jump packs and skimmers able to CC pop up skimmers
-terrain "stats"
-intermingle
-supreme commander re-rolls
-turn starting randoms
etc.

Meaning is I'm not the only one seeing problems here. Simply made a complete set of rules, armies, lists to solve all of these issues, be it any small or enormous. They may be imperfect, and not satisfy everyone, but perhaps there is out there at least one guy who says it's cool. I will never know if that's true, but if it is, then it would be the shameless for me to remain silent.

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 Post subject: Re: If you could change the RULES of E:a...
PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:50 pm 
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yeah, i was joking but thank you for explaining it.... ::)

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 Post subject: Re: If you could change the RULES of E:a...
PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:16 am 
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semajnollissor wrote:
I believe that macro weapon should be a weapon attribute rather than a weapon type, so that the guns that are currently just macro weapons could instead have different AP and AT to-hit values. I.e. a MW4+ could instead be a AP4+(MW) and AT5+(MW) or maybe be a AP4+(MW) and AT3+ (with no MW for AT targets).


I like this. It'd let you choose whether you're firing your MW weapons at vehicles or infantry... it's a little frustrating when I try to fire MW at transports and they get taken on infantry instead; makes me wish they were AT weapons instead.

A few of the potential rules changes in this thread seem to have a lot of agreement. Do we have a way to actually consider enacting them? If we don't want another divide in the community we'd only enact the ones with agreement across all the known player groups, including non-English speaking ones. That probably means very few of these will happen, certainly nothing close to the changes Commissar Holt's made (though we should study those). But that's okay. If this does result in a living rulebook, we should feel like our tweaks can be revisited- i.e., don't let perfect be the enemy of good.

It's not like we're going to get Epic Armageddon 1.5 from GW. Also, everyone's used to getting their rules online these days, and the physical rulebook is already outdated due to the FAQ, isn't it?


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 Post subject: Re: If you could change the RULES of E:a...
PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:29 am 
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Just wanted to note that most of those popular ideas were in the EW ruleset which was designed to be a clean room update of EA. People wouldn't play it because it's not epic. Unless you get something from GW there's going to not be any consensus. If Neil had taken charge after they stopped supporting EA then yeah that's a different story but lacking anyone with any sense of authority in the subject, probably not going to happen now.

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 Post subject: Re: If you could change the RULES of E:a...
PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:50 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: If you could change the RULES of E:a...
PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 2:27 am 
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jimmyzimms wrote:
Just wanted to note that most of those popular ideas were in the EW ruleset which was designed to be a clean room update of EA. People wouldn't play it because it's not epic. Unless you get something from GW there's going to not be any consensus. If Neil had taken charge after they stopped supporting EA then yeah that's a different story but lacking anyone with any sense of authority in the subject, probably not going to happen now.


I think we've moved beyond needing GW approval for changes... but we still need it to be called Epic Armageddon and take the place of the rules in the Tournament Pack before anyone will use them. Or is it only people using NetEA lists that refer to the Tournament Pack on net-armageddon.org?

It'd make NetEA a ruleset in addition to an army list collection, unless the other global communities agree with the changes. In that case, it'd become the de facto EA rules (we'd have to give it a version number) and we'd help translate the changes into other languages. Granted, the changes we could all agree on would be veeery tiny. But why not try? There's no chance of improving the game any other way.


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 Post subject: Re: If you could change the RULES of E:a...
PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 1:46 pm 
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The community could do it with Warmaster, so why couldn't we do it?

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 Post subject: Re: If you could change the RULES of E:a...
PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:08 am 
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mordoten wrote:
The community could do it with Warmaster, so why couldn't we do it?


A couple of reasons really:

- Warmaster has a much smaller global following than epic, so it's easier to get a broad consensus on things
- Warmaster v2 (Warmaster ancients) already existed, WM:R isn't adding any real changes, rather incorporating existing rules from the ancients set, so it's far easier to bolt 'new' rules on
- the changes implemented were issues that almost everyone agreed were a bit broken (cavalry supremacy) so it was an easier pill to swallow for most of the community

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 Post subject: Re: If you could change the RULES of E:a...
PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:47 am 
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Spot on Kyuss.

Also, it is one thing to agree that some part is broken, but much harder to agree a suitable replacement, plus those die-hards that still play E:A tend to take more convincing. Consider the debates on changes to any of the army lists, some of which have lasted many years.

Even really simple changes may have a huge effect and need a lot of work. The idea of 'variable' armour where reinforced armour has a different value, would potentially require a review of all lists to make the changes, that would then need testing and acceptance. . .

Other more fundamental changes are harder. Neal Hunt tried to change the air rules around 10 years ago, but couldn't find a suitable alternative that worked and that people liked.

Finally, the E:A rules are used by all the global communities. There may be subtle differences in interpretation, hence the debates and FAQ, but the rules are the one constant. Making changes to them would probably cause more fragmentation, much like the divisions that resulted from the introduction of each ruleset.


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