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2017 - Biel-Tan List Issues

 Post subject: Re: 2017 - Biel-Tan List Issues
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 4:20 am 
Hybrid
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it kinda does, dosnt have to be before the assault but if your broken by either a nice clipping assault, a free avatar or crossfired (stacking blasts from more formations giving the crossfire. A nice rule i learnt at cancon from the best).

Then hit by a void, 2 being can hit pretty much anywhere on the table and take off all those disrupt hits in stands. Pretty devastating.

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 Post subject: Re: 2017 - Biel-Tan List Issues
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:37 am 
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You could always run this list against mic.

Codex Astartes TP2016 thunder hawk / Codex Astartes TP20163000

    Scout Detachment                                     275
        4xScout                                             
        Supreme Commander                                   
        2xRhino                                             
        Razorback                                           

    Thunderhawk                                          200
        Thunderhawk Gunship                                 

    Thunderhawk                                          200
        Thunderhawk Gunship                                 

    Thunderhawk                                          200
        Thunderhawk Gunship                                 

    Thunderhawk                                          200
        Thunderhawk Gunship                                 

    Thunderhawk                                          200
        Thunderhawk Gunship                                 

    Thunderhawk                                          200
        Thunderhawk Gunship                                 

    Thunderhawk                                          200
        Thunderhawk Gunship                                 

    Thunderhawk                                          200
        Thunderhawk Gunship                                 

    Thunderhawk                                          200
        Thunderhawk Gunship                                 

    Thunderhawk                                          200
        Thunderhawk Gunship                                 

    Thunderhawk                                          200
        Thunderhawk Gunship                                 

    Landing Craft                                        350
        Landing Craft                                       

    Thunderbolt Squadron                                 175
        2xThunderbolt Fighter-Bomber                        


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 Post subject: Re: 2017 - Biel-Tan List Issues
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:47 am 
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Norto wrote:
it kinda does, dosnt have to be before the assault but if your broken by either a nice clipping assault, a free avatar or crossfired (stacking blasts from more formations giving the crossfire. A nice rule i learnt at cancon from the best).

Then hit by a void, 2 being can hit pretty much anywhere on the table and take off all those disrupt hits in stands. Pretty devastating.


So adding the short range, should limit the reach of the artillery hitting broken formations and taking disrupt off will help then.. sorry I was think more of prepping for the assault and not the other shit at that point in time..

But here's the funny thing, I can take Phoenix bombers for 50 points more and do the same job(cant capture Objective markers of course), only worry about AA and Fighters..Never worry about been crossfire, reach anywhere on the table, have the same 5+ RA and same chance to take a crit..and get 6 AT 4+ at 45cm's and 3 AP Extra and 3 AA shots at 30cm and is a Fighter-Bomber. It also doesn't take up a support slot...and Phoenix bombers can't be broken as such..May miss activation if a player rolls shit, due to BM's..

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 Post subject: Re: 2017 - Biel-Tan List Issues
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:51 am 
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You could try the white scar list when your not have a white scar... against mic. :)

White Scars (NetEA Tournament Pack 2016)
THUNDERHAWK [200]
THUNDERHAWK [200]
ASSAULT [275]
4 Assault Units, Supreme Commander
ASSAULT [225]
4 Assault Units, Chaplain
ASSAULT [225]
4 Assault Units, Chaplain
ASSAULT [225]
4 Assault Units, Chaplain
THUNDERBOLT FIGHTERS [175]
2 Fighters
STRIKE CRUISER [200]
THUNDERHAWK [200]
THUNDERHAWK [200]
ASSAULT [225]
4 Assault Units, Chaplain
ASSAULT [225]
4 Assault Units, Chaplain
ASSAULT [225]
4 Assault Units, Chaplain
ASSAULT [175]
4 Assault Units,

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 Post subject: Re: 2017 - Biel-Tan List Issues
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:10 am 
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Caz wrote:
Scout – 150
Scout – 150
Strike cruiser – 200
Devastator - drop pods – 250
Tactical – SC 2 x razor backs – 425
Landing Craft – 350
Predator Annihilator – hunter – 325
Thunderhawk – 200
Thunderhawk – 200
Terminator - Chaplain – 400
Thunderbolt Squadron 175
Thunderbolt Squadron 175

this is what i came up with Steve

thoughts

That's exactly the type of build I was talking about.

In response to Jims points
- that list or very similar lists have won 4 tournaments in the last year in the UK playing against a variety of armies. My elder build which has won a bunch of tournaments using a similar idea to Mics of holding back behind rangers with VS+falcons but with vampire aspects rather than spears is 0-5 in the last few months against similar builds.
- against large titans or russ co the same principle applies as with what I wrote vs elder - win the activation battle. Firstly spread your objectives as far as possible to prevent 1 enemy formation holding 2 objectives then concentrate on killing/breaking the small stuff leaving SM with an overwhelming activation advantage to gang up on the big stuff later or just run round and grab the objectives.
- vs RA. Mics list only has WEs with 3 DC 5+ RA. Terminators in FF, LC in FF, predators shooting, barrage, devs sustaining are all capable of breaking or killing them. Breaking is the main target as then they can easily be BMed to death. Against bigger RA then the paragraph above applies, SM have nothing that can go one on one with large RA co or titans so don't - pick an all comers list then kill the non RA and win via activations.

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 Post subject: Re: 2017 - Biel-Tan List Issues
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:16 am 
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Maybe the bombers are undercoated also then :P

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 Post subject: Re: 2017 - Biel-Tan List Issues
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:40 am 
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Norto wrote:
Maybe the bombers are undercoated also then :P


LoL... Mic secret is out, he uses undercoated figures that's why he's winning(They only look painted in the Pictures we see)..... :) :) ;)

P.S.- I'm not going as far as saying he could win epic not using any dice of any kind(electronic or Psychical) though... :)

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 Post subject: Re: 2017 - Biel-Tan List Issues
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 9:29 am 
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Thanks for your posts Steve! Your detailed advice and list looks solid and helpful.

I'll add for context that Steve does have a lot of experience and skill at epic - looking up the stats on the Epic-UK site he's played 240 games at epic tournaments and won 58% of them, while only losing 16%.

I hope that Australian players will try out different lists and tactics that work well versus Eldar in the rest of the world and see how that goes for a while.


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 Post subject: Re: 2017 - Biel-Tan List Issues
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 9:49 am 
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Just to echo Steve54 that marine list, or some factional variation of it, is probably the most successful all comers list in the UK. Dpdexys gave my previously unbeaten TK sons a thorough drubbing with it back in Feb - the fact I had tonnes of RA made very little difference.

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 Post subject: Re: 2017 - Biel-Tan List Issues
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:00 am 
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Mic was the best player at cancon and he won. The best player there also has somethings to say about the army he took.


also....
UK stats, arnt we playing netEA here?

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 Post subject: Re: 2017 - Biel-Tan List Issues
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:33 am 
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They are not that different you know.

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 Post subject: Re: 2017 - Biel-Tan List Issues
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 11:32 am 
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Norto wrote:
also....
UK stats, arnt we playing netEA here?

I realise this is bait, but we might as well stop trying if that's the attitude.

BT and marines have only very small differences EUK vs NetEA (ok, fire prisms are different, but who's taking them anyway?), compared to any variations in local meta, terrain convention, player skill it would i think average out.
Are you saying you want to dissmiss the single largest repository of tournament lists and results that gives you the ability to track back every game played against every list by every player with the scores due to a different label and the fact it has UK in the name?

I actually agree with the Australians that BT could do with a trim in their special rules, but the way the discussion is happening is ridiculous.

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 Post subject: Re: 2017 - Biel-Tan List Issues
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 12:23 pm 
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Steve, thanks for the list suggestion. I know you said it's great, but just as others perceive mics list as week in thier meta, that space marine list is considered week in ours. I think it is useful in highlighting the differences in play style and preference across the metas.
Cheers
Jim


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 Post subject: Re: 2017 - Biel-Tan List Issues
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 1:26 pm 
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I realise this is bait, but we might as well stop trying if that's the attitude.

Right on... but you already know what i wish to say but dont want to ruin this for the rest of the aussies here being diplomatic.

Ill pipe down and leave it to the rest



EDIT: can you guys lock me from posting for a month :P????

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 Post subject: Re: 2017 - Biel-Tan List Issues
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 1:56 pm 
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Norto wrote:
UK stats, arnt we playing netEA here?

Sure, but the differences between Epic-UK and Net-EA versions of lists are generally minor so intermixing and comparisons between the two are still relevant. Steve's list and Mic's lists both cost overall the same under either system and the only different in terms of units is that Epic-UK Shining Spears Exarches have lance.

JimXII wrote:
Steve, thanks for the list suggestion. I know you said it's great, but just as others perceive mics list as week in thier meta, that space marine list is considered week in ours. I think it is useful in highlighting the differences in play style and preference across the metas.

I get that you perceive Steve's list to be weak in the Australian meta, but could there be some merit to trying out a few games with the list and tactics Steve posted versus Eldar lists you're struggling against? Given it's a very competitive list here and capable of reliably beating a similar Eldar list to the sort you're having problems with, there's good reason to think it could do similarly in Australia too and perhaps your perceptions of it and your meta could change.


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