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Tell me about the Dark Eldar

 Post subject: Tell me about the Dark Eldar
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 11:06 pm 
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Hello, I am considering the Dark Eldar as my next list as I want a raiding / pirate type of force and also I really like the miniatures that Onslaught makes for proxies. I know nothing about them but have looked through the list and I was hoping someone could point me in the right direction regarding what units to bring, what not to bring and the low down on how they play?

Thanks in advance.


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 Post subject: Re: Tell me about the Dark Eldar
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 9:01 am 
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I would rtecommend the EpicUK list. Thats the one I'm using (only played 4 games with it though) and I think it's awesome. Can't say the same for the NetEA list which is not near as interesting and well made IMO.

The DE is an assault list, and a very brittle one. You want to pick your targets and make sure you can hide your formations from incoming fire before and after assaults.
If you get stuck in front of the enemy you're dead. Seriously, they die as easily as millenials gets offended.

I would for sure bring two fully upgraded wych cults (with succubus and warp beasts) in slavebringers. One of the best assault formations in the game i think (yay first strike!).
I like mandrakes and Vessel of pains too. Other than that I think the core option (warriors) are a great unit.

So far I'm 3-1 (W/L) with the list and find it very fun to play!

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Last edited by mordoten on Fri Jan 13, 2017 3:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Tell me about the Dark Eldar
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 2:03 pm 
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You'll need at least a Coterie, 1-2 Syndicates and 0-1 Flotillas. The 6 Partisans can be whatever you like the most. I wouldn't label any of them "would not bring", you can make them all work with practice. The upgrades are costed prohibitively high though, those I would stay away from and use the points for more activations. Beyond those, the Spacecraft and Executioner don't tend to make it into 3k games here. The only time I remember seeing an Executioner was in a 4 person mega battle. Most of the games I've played involved the Kashnarak. For 50 points, it's a fun little addition that can be used to mess with your opponent's assaults that they have set up before they can do anything. It's also particularly enjoyable for the opponent when you mess up and it charges you.

In terms of play-style, the list is similar to Eldar without the option for a double retain and 2x Inspiring units. So, a little more challenging than Eldar as you're still fragile. You're going to want to be setting up assaults and using your Hit & Run to bring in more support, and relying on terrain to keep your units alive. You will have the option of shedding BMs faster than Eldar though, as you can add leaders to your formations.

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 Post subject: Re: Tell me about the Dark Eldar
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 4:27 pm 
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Where as Eldar might be classed as a 'Glass Hammer' army, Dark Eldar should be seen more as a 'Crystal Sledgehammer'. They are very good at attacking on their own terms, but weak to the point of laughable at taking it back. You will need to be very cautious and launch lightning attacks to weaken your opponents.

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 Post subject: Re: Tell me about the Dark Eldar
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 5:12 am 
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Dark Eldar are the weaker cousin of the Eldar.

When it comes to Titans and Shields, Eldar do not lose their shields, the shot is saved or it is not. With Dark Eldar, a shield goes down (bonus is you are -1 to hit), but lose all your shields and you can not get any back. You automatically get 1 shield back per turn up to starting amount if you still have an active shield.

They are points costed just as prohibitively as the Eldar, and tend to have more expensive upgrades and additions to formations than other armies like Marines where upgrades work out cheaper per unit than the cost per unit in the original formation purchase. This does mean 2 things - you either have larger formations, but less of them because of the higher cost, or smaller formations, but more activations, and the formations are broken easier.

The units/infantry/ vehicles I have found the most effective and provide the best performance for what you pay in points cost are:

Vessels of Pain preferably taken as lone killers to get the extra activation, avoid giving the enemy too many BTS objectives and have 3 DC, 2 shadow fields, 4+ Reinforced armour and a good variety of weaponry including range 45 MWs.

Reaver Jetbikes - they are infantry, so AT weapons are useless, have a move of 40cm, with skimmer, can provide FF support even when they triple move (due to Dark Eldar special rule), and have a 4+ save. Really great as initiative sinks, and for taking isolated objectives. Bad thing is they have no ranged weapons only FF and CC.

Barge of Pleasure - can carry 4 infantry and infantry can shoot from vehicle. has shields and 3 DC but save is only 5+ as with vessel of pain it has Reinforced armour.

Razorwings - These Fighter Bombers have a decent save at 4+, and can jink at 4+ when you have MW weapons fired at them. They have MW weapons and can perform AA (though not as well as Ravens). Dark Eldar have no ground based AA weaponry (at the moment, however changes are on the way I hear). Well costed at 175 points for 2.

Scourges are jump infantry and one of the few infantry with decently ranged weaponry in the list. They also have Lance weapons, and a save (even if it is not that much). They also move 30cm, can deep strike (teleport).

Mandrakes - I have had hit and miss results with these guys. They can teleport in and have a low level save. They are slow 15cm like all basic infantry, but have infiltrate (can charge 30cm). They also have first strike

Talos - If you could get larger formations are a cheaper price I would build a few large formations of them. Slow for vehicles at 15cm, but the armour save is 4+ RA, and they are fearless. Their weapons are very short ranged, and I tend to get them in close combat where their MWs work best. 4 of them can also be deployed via the Slavebringer War Engine/bomber transport.

I tried a combo of the following with limited success, but they are not useful if you want the army to be a raider force 100%.

Haemonculi with Grotesques, backed up by Talos and Perditors, and bulk the force out with Raider transports. It is a decent force to hold a forward objective near the middle of the table and use the Perditors Indirect Disrupt artillery to force the enemy to rush in and attack. Except for the Raiders, the force is Fearless, Everything has an armour save, and is best to rush them up and park them on an objective.

I have used Wyches once, and they performed OK, but they do not have an armour save unless you get in close combat.

I dislike using formations of Kalabite warriors mounted in raiders. So fragile and not that useful - tactics wise when you want to move - shoot - move, and you only have a single range 30cm AT weapon on the raiders, and range 15cm AP weapons on the troops. Thankfully you can shoot from the transports. If you can arrange and actually get a character to bring other formations along with them, then you can set up a large FF/ CC engagement with jetbikes, Wyches and raider mounted Kalabites. Once you do this, the formations are usually left vulnerable and easy targets for enemy sniping as they can not all find cover to hide in or behind.

Ravagers - for the points cost they are easily the unit that has the most fire power per model. They have a 4+ save, but as I have found out to my detriment (the same with Raiders) is that being Light Vehicles, enemy can target them with AP. AT, MW and TK weapons, and generally do. Their weapons range out to 30cm max, and when you are hiding behind cover, the enemy indirect artillery (that does not scatter) always uses the AP option to hit you as it is better.

Titans and the Executioner. Titans are a hard one, as they do move 35cm, until they get a crit and drop down to 25cm. They have better DC and more shields, and more weapons and have one of the few TK weapon options Dark Eldar get, but against some armies like AMTL they will die quickly, and they sink up a lot of points. The executioner is too expensive to field, and its rules mean it sits around like the Squats Overlord Airships and everything can see it and shoot at it. It is one of the best AA platforms, and has a huge amount of weapons at range 45cm or even 60cm, but its loss will be hard felt. You could use it to draw enemy fire and then pick off enemy targets of choice, but I tend not to use them.

As mentioned by many, they are a glass hammer. You tailor your list for a purpose and stick to it.

Close combat with lots of fast strike units like Wyches, Jetbikes, Hellions and Sdcourges backed up by Ravagers, smaller Kalabite/Raider formations and the Kabal Coterie. (always have Razorwings and Ravens for CAP and extra strafing support)

Skirmish hit and Run - use your bikes to get objectives, Vessels of Pain and Ravagers, backed up by Kalabites mounted in Barges of Pleasure to move - shoot - move and snipe at the enemy. Use your minimum 2 Razorwing formations for CAP/Intercept and to finish off broken enemy units.

You could go the stand an hold tactic, but this is not advised. The cost of large fearless formations of Talos, Perditors, Haemonculi/Groteques, is just to prohibitive. There are not enough other options you can take to back them up if this is your only tactic. The army is just too brittle.

I prefer the hit and run tactic.

This is my current collection for Dark Eldar, although more of the minis have been painted since this photo was taken. I have also added 4 more Barges of Pleasure.


Image

I use the NETEA list, as I find having formations leaders does help remove blast markers and keep your formations in the field longer.

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Last edited by Deb on Sat Feb 18, 2017 2:32 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Tell me about the Dark Eldar
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 2:04 pm 
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Thank you all for the responses, particularly Dep for the detailed breakdown above. I still have some thinking to do about choosing my next faction but this helps a lot. I kind of like factions that are not uber and challenging to play.


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 Post subject: Re: Tell me about the Dark Eldar
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:47 pm 
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Very good breakdown indeed.
Thinking of making an army myself at some point, how would a good allround 3000 point army look?


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 Post subject: Re: Tell me about the Dark Eldar
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 8:41 am 
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Here is a quite powerful list.

Unfortunately it only has 9 activations, but between the 4 Razorwings (MW 3+ 1 each), the 3 Vessels of Pain (2 MW 3+ TK each), The 2 Barges of Pleasure (each has an AT5+ lance, and they have a combined 4BP Disrupt (short ranged though)), and finally the 13 Ravagers (each of which has 2 x AT5+ lance). All are skimmers or aircraft, and they all have good saves except the Barges of Pleasure although the armour is reinforced. Where possible the formations have a leader to help with Blast markers.

The Vessels of Pain and the OMG super fast Reaver jetbikes only activate on a 2+, while the 2 flotillas and the Syndicate activate on a 1+.

Kabals – 1550 Points
550 Points – Kalabite Syndicate – 6 x Kalabite Warrior (Inf), Achon (Inf Leader), Ravager (LV, Skimmer), 2 x Barge of Pleasure (WE, Skimmer)
625 Points – Kabal Flotilla – 6 x Ravager Hover Tanks (LV, Skimmer), Vessel of Pain, Sybarite
375 Points – Kabal Flotilla – 6 x Ravager Hover Tanks (LV, Skimmer), Sybarite

Partisans – 900 Points
225 Points – Reaver Gang – 6 Reaver Jetbikes, Sybarite (Inf, Skimmer)
225 Points – Reaver Gang – 6 Reaver Jetbikes, Sybarite (Inf, Skimmer)
250 Points – Heavy Barger – 1 x Vessel of Pain (WE, Skimmer, 3DC, 2 Shadow fields)
250 Points – Heavy Barger – 1 x Vessel of Pain (WE, Skimmer, 3DC, 2 Shadow fields)

Max of 1/3 of army points – 500 Points
250 Points – Razorwing Squadron – 2 x Razorwing F/Bombers
250 Points – Razorwing Squadron – 2 x Razorwing F/Bombers

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 Post subject: Re: Tell me about the Dark Eldar
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:14 pm 
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thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Tell me about the Dark Eldar
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:44 pm 
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I play the netEA list as I find the lack of the titian in epicUK boring and unimaginative. I think it's a great unit. It's a beast in assaults if you can get it into CC. It has a 35cm move, so a great assault range.

The last time I played them was at a tournament. They worked mostly well that time and I placed number 3, but as others have said they certainly can't take a beating. They are very brittle.
I tried to use as few infantry as possible for that reason except for the incubi. They are awesome.

I wouldn't play without at least one formation of ravagers. A formation of 6 puts out a tremendous amount AT-fire and can really hurt reinforced armor formations if used properly. They should preferably be deployed of board as they are LV and die like flies.

Like others have said the vessel of pain is also a great unit. I've used 2-3 of them in my lists.


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 Post subject: Re: Tell me about the Dark Eldar
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 8:31 am 
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You will the changes to the Titan in the new test list. Although the list removes the ability to regenerate a shield at the end of the turn, the titan has an extra 3 shields to compensate for this. It now gets Splinter Missiles, which are a range 30cm 2 x AA 5+. Some ground based AA at last. Other than that it seems pretty much the same with a 5+ RA save, same move and critical, however I will have to get feedback from Jim about the Phantom Lances whether it is 2 shots or 4 shots. The vessel of pain seem good.

It looks like the Flotillas will have a maximum of only 5 ravagers per formation.

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 Post subject: Re: Tell me about the Dark Eldar
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 1:07 am 
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http://epic-uk.co.uk/ukepicachampionship/albyr.php

These are the tournament lists used in EpicUK. Of note is that there are more tournament games using a more 'refined' version of the list after the 2016 counter attack but weren't EpicUK tournaments (just used their lists) and are not included.

As far as EpicUK is concerned the Warrior Kabals are great (as you can see every list has at least 2 of them) and lists generally don't deploy on the table. Instead it looks for vulnerable points in the enemy list and hammers them. Once the formation has appeared and done its bloody business the formation is generally written off - often too damaged in the process of annihilating the foe. These crippled formations tend to act as roadblocks to prevent the enemy moving freely, as objective contesters, as additional firefight support or just activation count buffing.

Activation count is very important, you need to have the game tempo in your favour to launch your powerful attacks and the activation advantage is key for achieving that. Vessels of Pain help is establishing and keeping this - cripple and strip activations with them such as enemy scouts and chaff formations or destroy/suppress their ground based AA.

You also need to focus on objectives. Think about how the move you are making scores you BTS, clears an objective, march blocks the enemy so they can't contest, etc.

There is one major alternative style I've played against. It;s less reliable but has a real WTF hammer. Spaceship, Executioner, Vessels of Pain and everything is mounted inside the Executioner - bar some warrior kabals in the webway. You basically move, shoot with your entire army, remount and move again as a single activation. It's weird, effective but has reliability problems.


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