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Iyanden Craftworld Eldar v4.2

 Post subject: Re: Iyanden Craftworld Eldar v4.2
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 7:02 am 
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I don't think that's necessarily the case. Wraithsight (the limitation on 40k Wraithguard) is generally described as the Wraithguard seeing the mortal universe differently, and getting distracted by the things they see. The presence of nearby Eldar psykers helps them to focus again. Epic Armageddon doesn't model things all the way down to individual warlocks - a typical Guardian warhost has a stand of "Farseers" that includes plenty of psykers, and Guardian stands could easily include lesser warlocks in them - every 40k "unit" (1-2 Epic stands) is likely to have their own Warlock in the ranks.

From the nearest copy of Codex Eldar that I have to hand (not sure what edition it is):

Quote:
Wraithguard do not see the world as mortals do, but instead witness an ever-shifting image of spirits that makes them slower to react on the battlefield. At the start of their turn, roll a D6 for each Wraithguard unit that is not within 6" of a friendly Psyker. On a roll of 1, the Wraithguard is inactive until the end of their turn.


As an E:A abstraction it would be fine to only give that limitation to all-wraith formations as an alternative balance mechanism to simply increasing their cost.


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 Post subject: Re: Iyanden Craftworld Eldar v4.2
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 7:57 am 
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Ginger wrote:
Tiny-Tim's comments on the E-UK list shed an interesting light on the issue, if a small price increase is apparently enough to stop the list being viewed as 'competitive' at 3K.
Not knowing the UK scene I might be wrong but it looks like the Iyanden scene was not that big so when 1 player stoped playing the list it was almost not used any more. Not sure it was the pricebump that made him stop...


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 Post subject: Re: Iyanden Craftworld Eldar v4.2
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 9:39 am 
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uvenlord wrote:
Ginger wrote:
Tiny-Tim's comments on the E-UK list shed an interesting light on the issue, if a small price increase is apparently enough to stop the list being viewed as 'competitive' at 3K.
Not knowing the UK scene I might be wrong but it looks like the Iyanden scene was not that big so when 1 player stoped playing the list it was almost not used any more. Not sure it was the pricebump that made him stop...

It was as he complained about the change making the list unsuitable for 3k or less (whilst smashing everybody's armies with his other choices).

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 Post subject: Re: Iyanden Craftworld Eldar v4.2
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 9:54 am 
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Guys

Great to see another Battle report on the table, thanks Greg, Uvenlord and your opponents.
Even though with only two games on the table we are starting to see some trends emerge.
I am hoping to get some games in myself this weekend and I am also hoping others will do the same. However I have been considering the discussions, battle reports and what initial changes might be warranted.

After seeing what the games over the weekend bring but the changes could be introduced next week.

The three changes i am considering are:
1. An adjustment to Wraithblade
-add MW to the EA +1
-WB upgrades to be purchased as a pair for 75 pts
2. An adjustment to Wraithlord
- WL formations to start at 4 units with the option of two more.
3. The Warhost:Troupe Ratio of 1:1 to 1:2

Thoughts?

Cheers

Mic


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 Post subject: Re: Iyanden Craftworld Eldar v4.2
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 10:28 am 
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Outstanding, like the direction of the change.


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 Post subject: Re: Iyanden Craftworld Eldar v4.2
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 10:42 am 
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Morsla wrote:
I don't think that's necessarily the case. Wraithsight (the limitation on 40k Wraithguard) is generally described as the Wraithguard seeing the mortal universe differently, and getting distracted by the things they see. The presence of nearby Eldar psykers helps them to focus again. Epic Armageddon doesn't model things all the way down to individual warlocks - a typical Guardian warhost has a stand of "Farseers" that includes plenty of psykers, and Guardian stands could easily include lesser warlocks in them - every 40k "unit" (1-2 Epic stands) is likely to have their own Warlock in the ranks.

From the nearest copy of Codex Eldar that I have to hand (not sure what edition it is):

Quote:
Wraithguard do not see the world as mortals do, but instead witness an ever-shifting image of spirits that makes them slower to react on the battlefield. At the start of their turn, roll a D6 for each Wraithguard unit that is not within 6" of a friendly Psyker. On a roll of 1, the Wraithguard is inactive until the end of their turn.


As an E:A abstraction it would be fine to only give that limitation to all-wraith formations as an alternative balance mechanism to simply increasing their cost.
With respect Morsala, I think you have missed the point here. However it is written, the animated construct rule would apply to all unguided Wraith units. By definition, this would also include those remaining from a Guardian formation where all the 'mortal' units have been killed. At best the Guardian troupe in this list would need a corresponding points adjustment to the Wraith construct upgrades.

However if applied to the Iyanden, the rule really should be applied to all Eldar lists; not applying it would cause confusion whenever Wraith units were fielded. I really do not want to go down that slippery slope.



Mic
Thanks for the response. The 1:2 ratio and removing the animated construct rule are key, leave the other changes to later since they provide much finer adjustment in the list balance.


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 Post subject: Re: Iyanden Craftworld Eldar v4.2
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 10:56 am 
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Andrew NZ, I thought you'd like it ;)

Ginger, the ideas for the first initial changes aren't set yet as I want to see how the weekend goes before locking them in. While I hear you loud and clear regarding the animated construct rule I will not be looking to change it at the moment. Let's re-visit this once the game testing shows something on it as so far it doesn't seem to have an impact. I do appreciate your insights and thoughts so please keep offering them. Do you have a game lined up soon?

Cheers

Mic


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 Post subject: Re: Iyanden Craftworld Eldar v4.2
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 10:59 am 
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An E-UK tournament game this weekend, though not with Iyanden


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 Post subject: Re: Iyanden Craftworld Eldar v4.2
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 11:00 am 
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Good luck then :)


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 Post subject: Re: Iyanden Craftworld Eldar v4.2
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 2:44 pm 
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Only had 1 game against th new list but my thoughts right now are:

Why so many changes at once? The Vampire wording change i understand. Also making units smaller. Animated construct rule is also ok (but should only be valid for units that consist soley or wraith-guard/blade/lord units!)

The point increase to wraithguards and the 1:1 ratio i don't get. 1:2 ratio makes the list more fu and allow for more interesting builds.

In short, i think theres to much nerfs at one time.

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 Post subject: Re: Iyanden Craftworld Eldar v4.2
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 10:13 pm 
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Well I like the new formations which is the major change IMO, and the initiative. Other changes I don't really have an opinion yet on their necessity and am quite happy to leave that for the AC to follow his vision.

My concern in that thread (which is one game, let's keep some perspective) is about the 1:1 and its effect on storm serpent builds and I would count it in the "things that have solutions" category. Let's not throw the baby out with the bath water (sorry to our non-native English speakers!).

To speak to the comments about the epic UK list, I would have said the problem was that the list channels you down only one or two viable builds due to its strict structure, and the price increase to the core formation made those builds problematic. Thus it's more of the straw that broke the camel's back.

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 Post subject: Re: Iyanden Craftworld Eldar v4.2
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 6:52 am 
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G'day

I have done some editing to the list to make things a bit neater. This was based on the feed back you guys posted and to keep in line with BT v4.2. If i have missed anything let me know.
I have also included the date on it for ease of referrence.

Cheers

Mic


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 Post subject: Re: Iyanden Craftworld Eldar v4.2
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 11:03 am 
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Thanks for the changes


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 Post subject: Re: Iyanden Craftworld Eldar v4.2
PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 11:40 pm 
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The Iyanden files have been updated to AF

Once the server is given a kick it should be live sometime this weekend.
Let me know if i stuffed up anywhere once it's going


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