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Craftworld Mymeara (Eldar Tank List)

 Post subject: Re: Craftworld Mymeara (Eldar Tank List)
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 9:03 pm 
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Managed a play test, 3000 points vs Salamander, Space Marines.
If you want to read the details look at the after action report.

Some general thoughts on the Mymeara list.

Finally managed to run an army with war walkers. Quantity has a quality all of its own. The ability to spam 100 point units meant that the deadly Eldar rolling assault can wait and wait and then get going. The war walkers proved surprisingly resilient in action. Partly this was a feature of numbers; roll enough dice, often enough, and you get some good results in the end. And of course you remember the glory results but tend to dismiss the more average results as being entirely expected for such weak troops.

This battle showed a strong result for spammed war walkers; especially since I am such a novice war walker commander. I think that the more normal costing would be appropriate; 4 war walkers for 150 points with an upgrade of up to 2 extra for 25 points each. But the war walker horde will get another outing, hopefully in the near future.

I was a little concerned about the low cost of the Lynx Troupes. They look a little like Scorpion-lite or Cobra-lite. However I discovered that the fixed forward arc provides some extra problems in a fluid battle line. In all three turns I had to move to shoot with the Lynx, due to fire arc, rather than using a sustain fire action. They are not very tough so keeping them in a stand up frontal engagement where this problem does not exist seems a nice balancing problem.

The table of organization for the army meant that there were relatively few assault units and Glyn did a good job of keeping them at arms length. I was also a little incompetent in not keeping all the formations within supporting range of each other. Some slight fine tuning on unit selections and firmer keeping to the plan during battle would probably make this army even more ugly. I’ll eventually get to the assault monster of Mechanized Infantry horde (275 point Guardians in Wave Serpents!).

Personally I don’t like the option of 5 or 6 Firestorms in the ‘armoured’ Swords of Vaul Hosts. In fact I don’t have enough models to spam them so will likely not test that option. Some more Warp Hunters (proxy with a plastic Falcon and a plastic D-cannon from a support weapon model) will get made in the future. I usually use these as Fire Prisms but at 65 points in this list they will never get used for that purpose. Perhaps Fire Prisms should be 50 points here as they are becoming in all other NetEA lists. Note the lack of AA on NetEA Fire Prisims.

Finally I really like Night Spinners. But in the spirit of quantity has a quality all of its own I will await testing them in numbers until I have made up some more models. Again the conversion is a plastic falcon with a single barrel from a night spinner or a barrel from an old Doom Weaver.


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 Post subject: Re: Craftworld Mymeara (Eldar Tank List)
PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 9:08 am 
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Interesting thoughts on 'spamming' War-walkers. This IMO is why they should be a minimum cost of 150 for 4x WW (this equates to 125 base cost and 25 for the activation advantage).

I have already tried spamming Night Spinners, and above 3x NS it becomes a very effective deterrent. Opponents tend to stay out of range, which does mean that you need to advance aggressively into the 'no-mans' land to take advantage of their reticence. Placing objectives into the anticipated area is key.

Mixing War-Walkers in with the NS could be a very interesting strategy. The WW do need to make best use of cover to make up for their poor armour - they are really defensive formations rather than offensive ones. However 6x WW pack a surprising punch which will make the opponent even more reticent. 4x WW hunting in packs could be very 'exciting'.

Note, the weak armour of this style army means that an aggressive opponent can usually attack and destroy a number of formations fairly easily - the question is whether the remnants of your army can make him pay or not. Consequently the positioning of your formations becomes even more critical.


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 Post subject: Re: Craftworld Mymeara (Eldar Tank List)
PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 2:34 pm 
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Just glanced at the Lynx...

That Lynx - is it 'Or' the two big weapons? Or 'and'?

Assuming it gets both...

It is crazy powerful. The lack of armour just makes it worse. It just makes it really binary. It basically has a heavier weapon load than a revant and costs a fraction - 2 are 275?!

Basically, you kill it, or it kills you. There have been many units like this over the years in Epic and they have never worked. I wouldn't suggest wasting time on it. And from experience, starting high with costing and working down is generally better. You have to cost it for its weapon load to start with and it has a revant level (better in a pair). Revanants incidentally cost so much despite poor armour due to their weapon load out. Making something more fragile and more heavility armed really isn't a got design.

Given the weak armour I would still start them at 500 for 2. The armour also is probably too weak, or are they lighter in construction than a falcon?

And with a 2 BP wepaon you may as well make them minimum formation size 2 as the firewpower goes up so much. A player can willingly handicap themselves, but you shouldn't let that distort testing.

On the wider list... you can take an all AV all skimmer army. This negates so many other army building you would significantly change the meta game. It also isn't much fun...

I would probably go for something like

1000 4 x Falcon/Firestorm
1375 5 x 2 Lynx
0300 1 x 2 Lynx, spirit stones
0300 1 x Nightwings

25 points for 1 lot of dalcons to get spirit stones or a fire prism.

Maybe 2nd lot of nightwings instead of something, but 8 firestorms should do an ok job.

Everyone skims, everything is an AV target, 11 activations, everything can hit the enemy deployment zone.


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 Post subject: Re: Craftworld Mymeara (Eldar Tank List)
PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 6:06 pm 
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That does make a fair bit of difference...

On the all skimmer bit - yes you can with other armies be mostly skimmer (well with biel tan you can take infantry skimmers), but the combo of all AV and skimmer (and high activation) isn't possible anywhere else. Even a bit of stuff to CC makes a difference.

As Guardians and aspects are so much an Eldar backbone, why axe them so dramatically? Maybe have their specialist aspect and the Guardians and up the support to 3 per core?

I think the biggest problem is the low cost of the armour.

If the core options were mech guardians, mech aspects and a 3 strong SHT, with I think 3 per core, you would have a different army dynamic that isn't so easy to abuse. The 3 strong mech SHT does mean you can have all AV skimmers, but it isn't a favoured unit so their are downsides.

And point of order - surely there is a role for that command falcon so many players have copies of here as an SC? :) making the SC falcon only also ensures that iconic formation is included.


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 Post subject: Re: Craftworld Mymeara (Eldar Tank List)
PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 7:08 pm 
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An army I might try with the current list is (to test nightspinner spam given the above)

1250 5x Falcon/Firestorm formation
1400 8x Nightspinners
0300 1x Fighters

50 points left over for BTS upgrade

Or to get some Lynx in

1000 4x Falcon/Firestorm formation
0550 2x Lynx sonic pair
1050 6x Nightspinners/Single Lynx
0300 1x fighters

100 points for upgrades or to turn some falcons into an SC formation and BTS


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 Post subject: Re: Craftworld Mymeara (Eldar Tank List)
PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 2:53 am 
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On night spinners, I have never rated them because they aren't deployment area artillery. Where there are better options you don't see a lot of them. Here because so many of your core needs are easily met and deployment strike is easily generated they seem more useful. Perhaps see how your list changes affect things. An expensive core and a slight change to attractive units changes the priorities and affects activation counts.

As a general rule though if your new units are more attractive than the old ones their might be something wrong...

And what was the rational for no Avatar? Too foot bound?

Something I would consider is
Core
600 points 3 SHT formation - spirit stones (25), Firestorm (50)
475 points 6 Falcons, Farseer Falcon, 7 guardians - spirit stones (25), Firestorm (50), Autarch (50)

So big armour formations as the core, then a re-jigged support to get activations back up, but play with air a bit to stop the list being too easy to build.

Support - up to 3 per core (upgrades as normal unless noted)
Falcons (5 falcons, can switch 1 for a firestorm) - spirit stones (25), Firestorm (50), Farseer Falcon (50), Autarch (50)
Engine of Vaul Troupe
Fire Prism Troupe
Night Spinner Troupe
War Walker Troupe
Hornet (what are these I wonder)
Lynx
Windrider Troupe
Aspect Warrior Troupe
Guardian Warhost
Nightwing squadron
Phoenix Bombers

Mixing in aircraft makes picking support slots trickier.

Allies
0-1 Eldar Spacecraft
Vampire
Revenants (Two Revenant Titans)
Phantom Titan

No single Revenants as a tank focused list.


For the Farseer Falcon
http://store.wargamingtrader.com/system ... -10-24.jpg
No weapons, so could be something like
50 points, add Farseer falcon to a formation
AV, mv35cm, sv5+, cc6+ ff4+
Twin Shuriken Catapults (15cm) Small Arms
Pyskic somthing (15cm) Small Arms +1MW
Skimmer, Holofields, Commander, Invulnerable Save, Farsight. Farseer units can be used to summon the Avatar.
Transport (May carry one of the following: Farseer, Guardian, Howling Banshee, Striking Scorpion, Fire Dragon, Dire Avenger, Dark Reaper & Swooping Hawk units).


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 Post subject: Re: Craftworld Mymeara (Eldar Tank List)
PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 8:24 am 
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Interesting ideas Chris, but IMO this will heavily change the dynamic of the list to a Falcon/Guardian shoot or engage list rather than tank orientated. Other points to note that the Eldar have evolved to having combined Falcon/Fire Prism/Firestorm formations now & you have dropped the Warp Hunter from your suggested list. Plus if we have Guardians in the core I'd drop them from being a support as well.

Autarch should be an up grade for the Aspects.

I wouldn't add in a command/Farseer falcon. Some of us need these to represent standard ones in our lists.

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 Post subject: Re: Craftworld Mymeara (Eldar Tank List)
PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 12:15 pm 
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Well I am a bit out of date... (What is a warp hunter?) Adding some guardians in was just to push up the cost of the Falcons really to get away from a high activation all av skimmer list.

I would of thought the farseer falcon was something easy to make - it is a falcon without guns and a couple of holo wings? Of course if you have a falcon farseer you have no reason to take normal guardians hence a mech formation.

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 Post subject: Re: Craftworld Mymeara (Eldar Tank List)
PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 12:19 pm 
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Note didn't intend to make a concrete suggestion - just wanted to illustrate an option with a more expensive larger formation core and then a 3 per core support structure with essentials like nightwings included to ensure it didn't get to easy to pick the list.
(And you think people would use the falcon formation to engage stuff?)

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