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Some Tau and generic questions from a new person

 Post subject: Some Tau and generic questions from a new person
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:55 am 
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Hi,

I'm looking at getting started in Epic (never played it before) and I'm eyeing up the Tau but just have a couple of question, I apologise in advance if these are blindly obvious

1. Why 2 lists?
I can see there is the normal '3rd sphere' Tau list and then also the 'Vior'la' big stompy robot list. why are there 2 separate lists and does this mean I cant field riptides in a 'normal' tau army

2. Multiple weapons
Fire warriors have both Pulse rifles and pulse carbines on there profile, does this mean that each stand can fire both or do I need to differentiate between the stands as to whose got what? Same thing applies to the crises suits

3. How many crisis suits per base?
is it 1 or 2 crisis suits per base and if its meant to be 2 can I get away with being tight and just putting one on a base?

4. Any recommendations for Tiger Shark AX-10 models?
what do people use for the Tiger shark AX-10 or any of the other fliers for that matter?

Finally how's this for a 1000pt list
I'll be ordering some Onslaught OTC later to use as Tau and I'm just planning my first purchases so hows this as a start

Crises Cadre - 250pts
+ Gun Drones -25pts
+ 1 extra crises suit - 50pts

Fire Warriors Cadre on foot(well hoof) - 225pts
+3x Broadsides 150pts

Broadsides group - 300pts

that's 1 or 2 crises suit packs (5 suits each) depending on if I'm feeling tight or not, 1 pack of fire warriors (only 25 in a pack but I can bulk they out with gun drones), 1 gun drone pack and 2 broad side packs

not sure if I'd actually paly a game at 1000pts but its just something to be starting with after that I'd probably start adding tanks

Thanks for your help

Andy


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 Post subject: Re: Some Tau and generic questions from a new person
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 12:12 pm 
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aktr wrote:
Hi,

I'm looking at getting started in Epic (never played it before) and I'm eyeing up the Tau but just have a couple of question, I apologise in advance if these are blindly obvious


You may have a rough start if your first army is Tau, they have some quite complex interplay between their special rules (markerlights and co-ordinated fire takes a lot of experience to use well)

Quote:
1. Why 2 lists?
I can see there is the normal '3rd sphere' Tau list and then also the 'Vior'la' big stompy robot list. why are there 2 separate lists and does this mean I cant field riptides in a 'normal' tau army


The Ethos of Epic Armageddon list design is that there are fewer generic kitchen sink type lists, lists should be themed around specific chapters/craftworlds/regiments/campaigns etc, some people dislike this but I personally prefer it, it gives alternate tactical choices and means you need to build lists around strong playstyles rather than just taking a bit of everything... this does mean that you can't field riptides in the 3rd sphere list, although there is absolutely nothing preventing you from doing so if your opponent doesn't mind, the NetEA lists are intended to provide a balanced tournament experience, outside this environment it's basically down to you and your playgroup, plenty of groups around the world have their own preference and house rules for stuff

Quote:
2. Multiple weapons
Fire warriors have both Pulse rifles and pulse carbines on there profile, does this mean that each stand can fire both or do I need to differentiate between the stands as to whose got what? Same thing applies to the crises suits


if a unit profile includes multiple weapons, then the unit may fire all of them if there are eligible targets, they don't need to pick and choose, you may always fire to place a blast marker for 'coming under fire' even if your weapon type cannot harm the target (firing a heavy bolter at a war engine for example) you may not split fire between different target formations however, all weapons must target the same formation

Quote:
3. How many crisis suits per base?
is it 1 or 2 crisis suits per base and if its meant to be 2 can I get away with being tight and just putting one on a base?


By the strict rules, it should be 3-7 crisis suits per base as they are infantry choices, however the available proxy models are quite substantial so 2 on a base would probably not cause any consternation, I'd avoid 1 per base to avoid confusion with broadside suits at a glance

Quote:
4. Any recommendations for Tiger Shark AX-10 models?
what do people use for the Tiger shark AX-10 or any of the other fliers for that matter?


Hunt around on ebay/trade groups for some would be my first recommendation, but there are plenty of suitable aircraft models in other ranges, maybe dropzone commander has something?

your list looks fine as a starting point for 1k although it's very slow, well worth replacing the broadsides in the fire warrior formation with devilfish for mobility, you could also do with some markerlights in the list, recons are the cheapest way to get them in, I'd probably drop the broadside formation as well and replace with a recon formation and some hammerheads instead

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 Post subject: Re: Some Tau and generic questions from a new person
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 2:48 pm 
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KiC hit the nail on the head. I'd add that one of the goals once the Vior'la heavy suits stats are completed, is to put together a master Tau list. It wouldn't necessarily serve as a tournament list, although TOs could certainly allow it, but rather a master list with all the stat lines for people to select from and include units not currently in lists such as the hazard suit, vespids, and the Tidewall.

As for basing, I have my crisis suits based one per stand. While it may not be technically correct, I havent had anyone complain in 5 years. Of course now that I said that...

But I did my basing when the suits were harder to come by, so I was trying to stretch what I had. I really like the look of two or three per stand, especially if you're using someone like Onslaught where you can easily increase a order size.

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 Post subject: Re: Some Tau and generic questions from a new person
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 2:53 pm 
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kyussinchains wrote:
Quote:
3. How many crisis suits per base?
is it 1 or 2 crisis suits per base and if its meant to be 2 can I get away with being tight and just putting one on a base?


By the strict rules, it should be 3-7 crisis suits per base as they are infantry choices, however the available proxy models are quite substantial so 2 on a base would probably not cause any consternation, I'd avoid 1 per base to avoid confusion with broadside suits at a glance


For an example of this have a look at my Tau army. You can see the basing scheme I used for my suits

https://zacgaming.wordpress.com/2019/02 ... -tau-done/


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 Post subject: Re: Some Tau and generic questions from a new person
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 6:36 pm 
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The design notes in the Epic Tau Codex mention Crisis Suits should be 2-4 to a base plus optional drones. The base size is the important bit in game though and if you based 1 or 5 per base I doubt anyone would care so long as it's obvious what they are.

It's a shame there are no Riptides in the core Tau list but it's how the game and lists were developed. It was felt that approved lists so should generally stay with the same units and just have balance tweaks if needed. If newer 40k codexes later added lots of new units these could be added to a variant list (that should have some downsides of restrictions to compensate) but not the core list. It obviously couldn't be fine at s tournament but if you wanted to use a Riptide formation from the Viorla list with the core third sphere list and your opponent is ok with it then I doubt it would cause any balance issues. In games where that isn't possible it's fine to count Riptides as Hammerheads, it's a good way to distinguish between multiple formations if then in an army.


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 Post subject: Re: Some Tau and generic questions from a new person
PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 12:05 pm 
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thanks for the replies
My friend said he is happy with me mixing units from both lists so I'll be including Riptides, Ghostkeels and Supremacy suits in my armies because what's a Tau army if not an excuse for big stompy robots

assuming that I can find good models for the Ghostkeel and supremacy suits

I've decided to not be tight and will put 2 crises suits per base

I just need to decide what to put in my first order to Vanguard

I


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 Post subject: Re: Some Tau and generic questions from a new person
PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 12:34 pm 
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Yes Vanguard are an awesome resource to the epic community. I'm sure Moredakkas here, who is the proprietor, appreciates the custom.

As said elsewhere, though I'll put my own spin on it, EA lists are based on a particular theme. Be that a particular campaign (3rd sphere being basically the Taros campaign) or a spin on a battle doctrine (the V'orla big suits). They're all generally balanced for a competitive environment and kept in check by crunching world wide tournament data.

During my tenure as Marine faction Army Champion, I began a process of including a statement of purpose for the theme or style rational for a list. Our illustrious new leader, Kyussinchains has seen fit to continue and we've seen pick up in other factions to help answer questions such as "why this list". Likewise, an explicit for friendly play 'everything and the kitchen sink' list has worked well as a general starting point guideline for those that wanted to grab everything they have for a good fun smash up battle with their mates. Again, we hope to see such things spread to other factions as well.

That being said, however, nothing should be preventing you from doing what you and your opponent want in your friendly games. The lists are a guideline, not religious text and should be tweaked to your liking, provided everyone is kosher with it. A good rule of thumb is after making a list, ask yourself if you would have fun playing against it. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Some Tau and generic questions from a new person
PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2019 9:44 am 
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aktr wrote:
Hi,


3. How many crisis suits per base?
is it 1 or 2 crisis suits per base and if its meant to be 2 can I get away with being tight and just putting one on a base?


Crisis suits are infantry, so a minimum of 3 per base.

I guess depending on the group you play with they can be open to other configurations but for instance since it is an actual rule I am not very permisive where I play.

You could always do the trick of basing 2 crisis + 1 drone to get to 3 models. It looks look and it follows the background since drones are usually scorting the crisis.

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 Post subject: Re: Some Tau and generic questions from a new person
PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:00 am 
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The Epic Tau Codex itself specifies 2-4 Crisis Suits per base towards the end of the codex in a note on basing, look:
Attachment:
tau.jpg
tau.jpg [ 224.41 KiB | Viewed 380 times ]


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 Post subject: Re: Some Tau and generic questions from a new person
PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:43 pm 
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GlynG wrote:
The Epic Tau Codex itself specifies 2-4 Crisis Suits per base towards the end of the codex in a note on basing, look:
Attachment:
tau.jpg


That's a nice suggestion, yes. I think they would look good even if just 2 per base and some scenery or drones.

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