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House Raven v1.35 (experimental)

 Post subject: House Raven v1.35 (experimental)
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:45 pm 
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After having looked very carefully at the various Knight lists out there I noticed that there's a lack of representation of a Knight-list based on GWs current Knight line-up.

For this reason, I've put together House Raven. It's mostly a mix of stats from the approved Knight list, some stuff from the EpicAU 30k list and some of my own ideas.

Update v1.13 18/4

-> Removed the "Max 1 per Noble Household" restriction on Mechanicus Allies.
-> Corrected Baron cost
-> Slight changes to costs of Cerastus and Questoris
-> Balanced Imperial Knights stats
-> Removed Lightnings. Adjusted Warlord cost
-> Aligned Cerastus Knight towards Knight Crusade list

Update v1.2 18/4
-> Corrected the Avenger Stats
-> Made the Avenger Gatling Cannon AP5+
-> Ceratus Lancer got a Shock Lance in addition to its Power Lance
-> Swapped the Arc Mechanicus for a Lunar Class Space Ship
-> Made the Skitarii formation the same as in the main list. Still in a Gorgon tho, alternatives don't fit into their intended role.

Update v1.21 19/4
-> Changed some names and terms to stay closer to the fluff
-> Added Heavy Stubbers to Imperial Knight configs
-> Removed Shock Lance from Errants
-> Slightly better shooting on the Gallant
-> Gave Baron a Melta for use in FF
-> Knight Porphyrion -25pts
-> Added weapons arcs and crits
-> Tweaked the Knight-Porphyorion armament

Update v1.25 20/4
-> Relic Lances are now 1 for each 2 Noble Lances, instead of 1 for each 3
-> 4+ FF and +25pts on the Knight-Baron
-> Added a Sagitarii option to the Mechanicus Allies section. 5 with 3 Chimera's as standard for 250 (same as in E-UK)
-> Been back and forth on the Shock Lance on the Errant. Removed it to differentiate from the Gallant.
-> Knight-Warden got a Reaper Chainsword instead of the Thunderstrike Gauntlet

Update v1.3 12/5
Thought the list was a bit too rigid, so I've opened it up a bit to increase variety.
-> Aspiring Lances are now 1 for each Noble or Cerastus Lance
-> Knight-Armiger lost reinforced armour, got a 4+ Save instead.
-> Mechanicus Allies are now 40% max
-> Replaced Meltagun with Hvy Stubber on the Baron
-> Warlord +25pts

New List: Speculative v1.35 13/5
With all the A-T coming out, I've taken a look at the upcoming releases to Imperial Knights (the ones we know about). These are the new "Mechanicus" (true name unknown) Acastus Class config and the Dominus Class (of which only the Castellan has so far been revealed).

The result of this is a slightly re-worked list that will exist side-by-side with the current list, at least until the exact weaponry, names and fluff around the new releases are better known. The biggest change to the old units is that in the Noble Lance, the Senechal isn't standard anymore, and that the formation can be upgraded with a Dominus Class Knight (they don't stomp around on their own). The Dominus can be crewed by either a Senechal or a Baron. This obviously means that the Knight-Baron has been replaced by a Baron character.

Temporary Army Forge File for v1.3 can be found @
https://magnusdurr.github.io/snapfire/w ... ghts_NETEA


Attachments:
House Raven Knight List - Speculative 1_35.pdf [119.5 KiB]
Downloaded 3 times
House Raven Knight List v1_3.pdf [117.48 KiB]
Downloaded 4 times

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Last edited by Mrdiealot on Sun May 13, 2018 3:43 pm, edited 25 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: House Raven v1.1 (experimental)
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:40 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: House Raven v1.0 (experimental)
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:12 pm 
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I'll comment more in depth later, but why not just let folks pick from the AMTL and Skitarii lists for allies?

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 Post subject: Re: House Raven v1.0 (experimental)
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:36 pm 
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Vaaish wrote:
I'll comment more in depth later, but why not just let folks pick from the AMTL and Skitarii lists for allies?


To keep variety in check I guess? Lots of stuff in there already. I'm usually conservative about allowing too much freedom of choice, but if the core of the list seem to work, I'm open for trying that.

Also, I'm aiming for a mechanized theme to the list, and I think the Skitarii in the Gorgon fits well. But there might be other ways of solving that.

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 Post subject: Re: House Raven v1.13 (experimental)
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:08 pm 
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Ok, so further thoughts:
Nobles: This is a weird formation. 5 knights is pretty heavy. I'd go with the standard 3 and allow upgrades to add the schenshal and additional knights. It's also potentially very unbalanced as I don't think every configuration is of equal value. I'd start with a base (paladin) and then allow additional knights to be added and individuals to be upgraded to alternate loadouts for an appropriate cost.

Armiger: FYI we 're renaming the AMTL forge knights to this with no stat change. Just keep that in mind.

Cerastus: This has the same issue as the Nobles. Castigators and Ascherons are probably worth more than lancers.

Skitarii: doesn't match the current Skitarii formation, probably should. Knights probably wouldn't have access to skitarii on their own. I'd probably drop the gorgon and go with a Triaros or similar or minorus with a corvus pod.
Avengers: stats don't match Skitarii list.
Ark Mechanicus: Knights probably wouldn't have access to this.

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 Post subject: Re: House Raven v1.13 (experimental)
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:59 pm 
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Vaaish wrote:
Ok, so further thoughts:
Nobles: This is a weird formation. 5 knights is pretty heavy. I'd go with the standard 3 and allow upgrades to add the schenshal and additional knights. It's also potentially very unbalanced as I don't think every configuration is of equal value. I'd start with a base (paladin) and then allow additional knights to be added and individuals to be upgraded to alternate loadouts for an appropriate cost.


Nobles are 4 in a formation. The Seneschal is a character upgrade. Think 4 makes them a bit beefier, and giving them a character makes up for lack of flexibility.

I'd rather make changes so that the configurations are of (roughly) equal value than mess around with small differences in points. And in modern fluff, they're all just configurations of a single platform, so making the Paladin standard isn't really motivated anyway.

Vaaish wrote:
Armiger: FYI we 're renaming the AMTL forge knights to this with no stat change. Just keep that in mind.


Sounds a bit odd to rename the forge knight to something it isn't? Why create a conflict with current GW stuff?

Vaaish wrote:
Cerastus: This has the same issue as the Nobles. Castigators and Ascherons are probably worth more than lancers.


Yeah, the Lancer might be worth less as is. Might make the shield even better.

Vaaish wrote:
Skitarii: doesn't match the current Skitarii formation, probably should. Knights probably wouldn't have access to skitarii on their own.


According to House Raven fluff, they're extremely close to Mechanicus. So I think this way of including them works. Swapping the Gorgon for a Tiraros might work, looks pretty cool. Can make them the same as Skitarii.

Quote:
Avengers: stats don't match Skitarii list.


Thought they did? I'll check it again.

Quote:
Ark Mechanicus: Knights probably wouldn't have access to this.


Yeah, you might be correct. Not the most important formation in the list, might as well drop it completely.

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 Post subject: Re: House Raven v1.13 (experimental)
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:11 pm 
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Quote:
Nobles are 4 in a formation. The Seneschal is a character upgrade. Think 4 makes them a bit beefier, and giving them a character makes up for lack of flexibility.

I'd rather make changes so that the configurations are of (roughly) equal value than mess around with small differences in points. And in modern fluff, they're all just configurations of a single platform, so making the Paladin standard isn't really motivated anyway.

It wasn't clear that the formation was 4 units. I'd move the scheneshal. Generally I agree 4 is beefier but I'm thinking that starting with three is more flexible for those using the Knightworld list. You already have the upgrade for more knights so why not just match the base formation and let players add an extra.

Just be careful with the configs. I suspect it'll be harder to balance without adjusting weapons stats on things that might already have stats defined than it would be to just make them upgrades with points changes.

Quote:
Yeah, the Lancer might be worth less as is. Might make the shield even better.

2+ seems excessive.

Quote:
Sounds a bit odd to rename the forge knight to something it isn't? Why create a conflict with current GW stuff?


To move from a fan made unit to one that exists in the fluff. Stats are fairly similar overall with the primary difference being the weapon they have isn't melta. I suspect that GW will eventually add variants anyway.

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 Post subject: Re: House Raven v1.13 (experimental)
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:24 pm 
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Think making the formation less flexible than Knight World somewhat compensates for all the flexibility that all the variants gives, but giving them a Leader as standard compensates somewhat. Kind of like giving certain formations a character as standard, gives them a bit of flavor.

Not sure what to do with the Cerastus Lancer to be honest, maybe someone has a suggestion?

About the Armiger I can see the idea, but I still don't really agree with creating a conflict. What to call what's supposed to be the real Armiger in this list (or others) to avoid confusion? Think Forge Knight is a perfectly fine name.

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 Post subject: Re: House Raven v1.13 (experimental)
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:27 pm 
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You could just match the AMTL stats.

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 Post subject: Re: House Raven v1.13 (experimental)
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:40 pm 
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Those stats don't make much sense in this list to be honest, no other Knight has Infiltrate for starters, and 4+ Reinforced makes no sense either, looking at the model. The weaponry is off compared to the model, and finally, they represent totally different things from a fluff point of view.

If you look at the Armiger fluff, they're for aspiring Knights. I don't really see what those guys would be doing in a list that don't have any other Knights:

Quote:
The Armiger is smaller than its cousins and is crewed by aspiring nobles, low-born commoners with a knack for war, or even the Cad children of Barons and High Kings. In battle the Armigers fight at the flanks of their larger kin, like packs of hounds hunting with their medieval lords

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Knight_Armiger


And that's all I've got to say on the names of stuff.

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 Post subject: Re: House Raven v1.2 (experimental)
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:45 pm 
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Full explanation:
Stat wise Armigers are about as tough as a Leman Russ but has an inv save from the ion shield so 4+ RA with an INV save would be appropriate. While they could have a 30cm+ movement speed, they are meant for hitting targets ahead of the main force and they like to attack up close. Infiltrator nets them a 40cm engagement move which I think does a pretty good job of showing the speed aspect along with the close fighting aspect.

Weapons wise, the manipulators aren't a bad analogy to what a reaper chain-cleaver would get stated out at anyway which just leave the cannon and I'm comfortable with them being armed a bit differently than GW as I suspect we'll see more variants.

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with your assessment.

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 Post subject: Re: House Raven v1.2 (experimental)
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:48 pm 
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Well, that's up to you. The Armigers in this list will stay close to the fluff.

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 Post subject: Re: House Raven v1.21 (experimental)
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:28 pm 
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Post updated

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 Post subject: Re: House Raven v1.22 (experimental)
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:46 pm 
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Post updated.

Had my first game ever with the Knight World against Argol's Scions of Iron in Tabletop Simulator, and that game confirmed my impressions of Knights in general. Looking forward to being able to put House Raven on the table!

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 Post subject: Re: House Raven v1.25 (experimental)
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 11:28 pm 
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Post updated. Version 1.25 is slightly more flexible than before.

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