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Skitarii Army List.

 Post subject: Skitarii Army List.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 3:47 pm 
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So, with development work on the AMTL army list winding down, it's time to move on to the second of the three Mechanicus lists, the Skitarii army list.

If the AMTL list represents just the Mechanicus' Titan Legions at war, as a detailed view of one aspect (indeed, the most famous aspect) of their fighting style, then the Skitarii army list represents the full might of the Mechanicus when roused to the fight.

We currently have a testbed Skitarii army list (v1.11).
This army list will be the main Mechanicus army list to be playtested over the next six month period.



So what are the core themes of the Adeptus Mechanicus?

- Titans
- War Engines (Ordinatii)
- Skitarii infantry
- Greater access to technology than other armies (including access to Super-Heavy Tanks)


I think the current list expresses these themes well enough, but I am currently mulling the following changes for V2 (version change to signify the start of a new testing period rather than a dramatic change).

- Delete Deathstrike Missile Launchers
- Remove single Ordinatus Minoris choice
- Move Ordinatus Minoris Company to Support Choices.
- Add the Macharius Heavy Tank Company to the Support Choices (the book Titanicus shows Machariuses operated by the Mechanicus).
- Reduce Allies allocation from 50% to 33% to stop aircraft spam.
- Possibly move Tank and Super Heavy Tank Companies to Support (leaving only Skitarii and Ordinatus Majoris as the Core choices)?


Any other suggestions chaps?

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 Post subject: Skitarii Army List.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 4:56 pm 
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I think those changes make sense from a fluff perspective. Anything you can do to distinguish the AdMech from "just another IG" list is a win.

This is just an idea, but maybe limit the type of SHTs to only those that incorporate "super" technology (e.g. plasma, volcano cannons) to distinguish them from normal IG or Minervan lists.

I do think that inclusion of the Macharius variants is a good idea. Maybe allow the AM to take any type of variant (BC, Vanq, VMB) to represent their greater availability vs. how the Krieg Machs are structured.

Looking forward to playing this one before too long.

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 Post subject: Skitarii Army List.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 5:36 pm 
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I dislike the removal of most of the armor from the core choices. AdMech, by definition, should be armor heavy. While the movement of Cataphracts and Superheavy Coys does differenitiate from the Minervan and Steel Legion lists, the change to the Ordinatus Minoris makes the list too restrictive.

I imagine the Skitarii Legions as a core of augmented guard and Ordinatii of both classes, supported by recently built IG vehicles. In addition, with the 2 per 1 restriction on support, and 2 core and 13 support, you run the risk of homogenizing army selection. My final objection to the change in the Minoris Company is that it would make the Minoris less common than the Majoris.

As an aside, some of the core upgrade language is unclear.

1) Are Praetorians 50pt per stand or 50pt per two? Perhaps add 2 for XX OR 4 for XX would be better.

2) Are you allowed to mix classes in the Anti-Tank section? The lack of specific numbers of each, like in the Fire Support section, makes it seem likely. Perhaps wording it either like the Fire Support or the Artillery would clarify.

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 Post subject: Skitarii Army List.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 5:44 pm 
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I think most of the changes are workable, but I was under the impression that ordinatus majoris are rare since they usually pack one of a kind weaponry named after a particular forgeworld. I think that makes them too rare to be core choices. I'd swap the minorus company for the core and put the majoris as support.

Along those lines, I'd even think about making the majoris 0-1 and only select it from the named list instead of allowing the choice of battle titan weapons.

I'd also see the mechanicus as being more elite in nature with fewer troops available than IG, but have more unique choices. IE, robots or heavily augmented equivalents. Fantastical tech they keep to themselves.

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 Post subject: Skitarii Army List.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 6:10 pm 
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Quote: (Spectrar Ghost @ Jan. 04 2010, 11:36 )

I dislike the removal of most of the armor from the core choices. AdMech, by definition, should be armor heavy. While the movement of Cataphracts and Superheavy Coys does differenitiate from the Minervan and Steel Legion lists, the change to the Ordinatus Minoris makes the list too restrictive.

I imagine the Skitarii Legions as a core of augmented guard and Ordinatii of both classes, supported by recently built IG vehicles. In addition, with the 2 per 1 restriction on support, and 2 core and 13 support, you run the risk of homogenizing army selection. My final objection to the change in the Minoris Company is that it would make the Minoris less common than the Majoris.

I agree with SG. I don't think reducing the number of core formations is a good idea. I see core formations being Titans, WEs, armor and Skitarii. Plus, it does make more sense to have the Minoris more common than the Majoris. However, I do like the idea of including the Macharius and greater access to technology in general.

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 Post subject: Skitarii Army List.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 6:17 pm 
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So, I was thinking that the list would feature Ordinatus weaponry + high technology + plus decent infantry choices. Perhaps I didn't understand the proposed changes completely.

That being said, I think the comment on making the big Ordinatus rare has merit, but I think that the titan options should be limited as there is already a TL list and why create something that's just titans + infantry (generalizing). Also, by including lots of tanks, do you really create flavor that is distinct from bog standard IG?

I really think that the push should be towards rare/best/arcane technology and try not to duplicate a list that already exists. After all, someone could just as easily use the Steel Legion list to make AdMech now.

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 Post subject: Skitarii Army List.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 8:31 pm 
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Quote: (Honda @ Jan. 04 2010, 12:17 )

That being said, I think the comment on making the big Ordinatus rare has merit

So do I.

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 Post subject: Skitarii Army List.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 8:43 pm 
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I'm afraid I cant offer much help in terms of balancing the army list as I'm currently more of a collector than gamer (which I'm hoping to rectify this year) but for flavour I'd quite like to see the following.

*Freem tanks
*Termites or other diggers
*A reflection of the enhanced comms of admech legions (noosphere?) although I cant really conceive how.
*Perhapps change 5 praetorians for 250 to 6 for 300 as for some reason 5's just always struck me as a little on the light side.


I'm more or less happy with all the other changes suggested although majoris as core and only skitarii being the other option concerns me a little.




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 Post subject: Skitarii Army List.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 8:48 pm 
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I've only been an opponent to this list (both Matt and Tim take it regularly).

I'd like to see the Majoris made 0-1 for fluff reasons. Personally I like that you can add Titan weapons to it, instead of one of the big 3 weapons. I would remove the restriction though that both the Titan weapons have to be of the same type.

In the games I've played against these guys I've usually only seen 1 formation of Skitarii however. If you want to stress them in the list I think you could do it by removing some other core choices or by making them cheaper. If you had it so every 2 stands had a Heavy Bolter as opposed to every stand that would call for a price reduction.

Also, I still hold that the Tech Priest should be a character and not a unit in of itself. That would reduce the points as well.

I liked the character progression the Dark Eldar use, something like this:

Centurian (Leader) +25 points
Tribune (Commander, Leader) +25 points to replace Centurian
Legate (Supreme Commander) +50 points to replace Tribune

Throw in some CC MW extra attacks to make them worth it.

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 Post subject: Skitarii Army List.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 9:54 pm 
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I don't mind the Tech Preist as a unit, as it is little different from the command stands for Steel Legion. In going over the list more closely, I dislike the Tech Lord as a Company Upgrade. This restricts his unit to only two other upgrades, essentially making his unit potentially the least well equipped in the force. If he stays in the Coy. Upgrades, add a caveat that he does not count towards the limit.

I do agree that Majoris should be support, though the 0-1 may be overdoing it. Perhaps you could add the restriction of only 0-1 of the named Ordinatii?

SG

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 Post subject: Skitarii Army List.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 11:30 pm 
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Quote: 

- Delete Deathstrike Missile Launchers
- Remove single Ordinatus Minoris choice
- Move Ordinatus Minoris Company to Support Choices.
- Add the Macharius Heavy Tank Company to the Support Choices (the book Titanicus shows Machariuses operated by the Mechanicus).
- Reduce Allies allocation from 50% to 33% to stop aircraft spam.
- Possibly move Tank and Super Heavy Tank Companies to Support (leaving only Skitarii and Ordinatus Majoris as the Core choices)?


I've been working on building up my AM army so finally I can throw in my two cents somewhere  :grin:

-I would not remove the single Minoris option.
-I agree with other that the Minoris might be the perfect lead formation.
-Adding Macharius with no squad restrictions would be good.
-Reduce to 33% is fine but I think you should move Warhounds to either a Core Choice and Revers to Support or just Warhounds to Support as they would be more accessible to the AM.
-I would move the Tank formation to Support but I would leave the SHT as a Core choice. Also I do like being able to put a SHT in my Tank company.

I see the Core options being like this:

Skitarii Formation
SHT Company
Ordinates Minoris
Ordinatus Majoris (Limit 1 per 1000 or 1500 pts)

I just don't see the most AM/Godly thing they could field being a Support choice but it should be limited.

And if were going to be playtesting this army and/or making the Ordinatus a feature part then we should find or *Magical Create* some models for them  :whistle:

Just MHO  :)

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 Post subject: Skitarii Army List.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 4:12 am 
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Quote: (Dave @ Jan. 04 2010, 14:48 )

In the games I've played against these guys I've usually only seen 1 formation of Skitarii however.

Dave's right; I do usually field only one Skitarii Demi-century. Maybe next game I'll try taking two and perhaps dropping my usual Praetorian formation. I like having one Heavy Bolter per stand, not just from a firepower point of view, but also becaase it distinguishes them more from IG. If the intent for the Skitarii list is to be primarily infantry, then core choices should be removed.

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 Post subject: Skitarii Army List.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 1:54 pm 
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Like Angel_of_Caliban,I think the SHT formation should remain core at least from a background standpoint - these are supposed to be rare high technology for the Imperium, so the Mechanicus having less access to them than standard IG doesn't fit with the background well. Removing the Russ company from core seems characterful though.


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 Post subject: Skitarii Army List.
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 12:58 am 
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I haven't played with the list yet, although I'll start next week with any luck :)

The idea I had on how to ensure there are more Skitarii in the list is a bit unconventional. Keep the tank and super heavy tank companies core choices, but only allow one tank company per Skitarii unit. So treat them a bit like support, only they count as core.
So you can take 2 tank companies if you like as core, but you have to have 2 Skitarii companies also.
Alternatively you could move the superheavies to support and have Praetorians as core?
Just a few thoughts.

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 Post subject: Skitarii Army List.
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:20 am 
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I like freebooters suggestion, similar to the jetbikes/shining spears in the saim-hann list.

In my mind an admech force should be compossed of lots of skitarii, titanicus and mechanicus both feature battles between vast amounts of infantry.

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